St. Pat's organizer: What more can we do?

St. Patrick's Day Parade organizer Mary Nestel isn't happy with front-page news like this:

• Shots were fired, and a family was brutally attacked by youths in a parking lot near 16th Street and Grand Boulevard.Police broke up at least 10 fights, tackled a gunman and nearly shot a juvenile who had a toy gun.
• In one attack Friday, a Kansas City Star employee and his family were kicked and beaten toward the end of the parade in one of the newspaper’s parking lots. A witness and Star security officials said one youth shot a gun into the air.
• Star story Saturday: Violence returns with gunfire, beatings, arrests

I called Mary this morning to see what, if anything, might be done differently next year.

"What more can we do?" she said. "We can’t tell certain people not to come down. It’s Kansas City’s largest single-day event, so aside from charging people to come...

"Where are our leaders in Kansas City to start looking at these, as the police called it, young thugs? Because the police did their jobs. They were all out there. We did not cut back in staffing. We even bought more barricades.

"We did our job by putting on an unbelievably successful parade. You could tell that by the thousands of people who came down and had a great time. And then a small 1 percent had to have a bad time thanks to some young thugs. Why were they even there?"

She told me she still hasn't seen a police report, and expects to meet with police later this week. She didn't like The Star placing the arrests story next to the parade recap on the front page Saturday:

"What are you guys going to do when that Arena opens and there’s a huge concert and everyone comes outside and about two blocks of cars are broken into and 10 people get mugged?" she said. "Are you going to put that right next to it? How is it going to be successful? It's not."

Update: Thursday, March 23, 2006:
I thought it would be helpful to put meeting updates, TV/radio links on the topic, etc. here.

Tonight: KCPT's Ruckus, 7-7:30 p.m., will discuss the parade, among other topics.

On Friday, the public television station's Week in Review program will also have the parade as a topic at 7:30 p.m.

On Monday, Kansas City police will conduct an internal review of their deployment and performance at the parade. Spokesman Capt. Rich Lockhart has also responded on this blog to a critic.

A report on the parade requested by Mayor Kay Barnes will be presented to the Kansas City Police Board at 9 a.m. Tuesday.

The Kansas City St. Patrick's Day Parade Committee will hold its wrap-up meeting Wednesday.

I'd be glad to add/link to other meetings, events or shows.

Comments

[Uncle Jay]

I've noticed today that in your Community Faces section under Local News you have 200 photos from the parade yet I don't see 1 "thug." By The Stars' reporting I was expecting to see chaos and mayhem, people with terror frozen in their faces from the onslaught of lawlessness. It seems like it would be easy to get those pictures since your reporting made it sound widespread. Heck, the beating happen in your parking lot - your photographer could have probably taken that picture from your building.

Or maybe 99% of everyone there had a great time watching a parade that was well organized.

Do you report Chiefs' games the same way as the parade - "The Marring of the Red" - when there are assaults and arrests at a Chiefs game. No, you don't - you say Chiefs Win or Chiefs Lose. Is a Chiefs' game a family atmosphere, absolutely not.

You're not just reporting on the parade, you are slanting the view.

[Amie Donaldson]

My husbands family has for years enjoyed the St Patricks day parade. But this year it was bad. We took our 1 year old son to see the parade and within 1 hour smelled pot and was at the very spot were the arrest was made with the kid and the gun. And not just any hand gun this was a gun that I have only seen on T.V. I immediately left and we will not be going back to the St Paticks day parade. And I DO have pictures of the the take down and the gun.

[Adam]

I was directly in front of this white Star employee being attacked by a group of black thugs. I saw the Star employee being kicked and punched by a group of blacks. Police were on the scene within minutes after someone fired what sounded like a 22 caliber pistol in the air. The crowd that was cheering the black thugs on disbursed.

When the attack started there were bands of black school aged youths watching the parade. Once the attack broke out I heard several say, “A fight, A fight” and then they went rushing over, jumping up and down cheering on their fellow thugs who were beating up a white family. Once the shot was fired in the air and everyone went running away from the attack, several of these youths were talking about how the “brotha’s” beat some white folk and then making fun of how the people who were attacked were cowards.

What is wrong with the black community and ITS leaders??? I am not African-American because I do not hold a dual citizen ship thus I do not need a hyphenated label. I am however a product of the black community but I am an American first. One that is concerned about what blacks are teaching blacks.

[John F. Knipper]

My wife, daughter and myself made our way to the 16th and Grand area to watch this years parade. This was my wife's first parade, being from Georgia and only being in KC for 4 years. This area was full of drinking and the smell of pot. The majority of the crowd was young African Americans. We enjoyed the parade, feeling somewhat secure as we saw groups of police officers in the area every 10-15minutes. The crowd started getting rowdy so about 30-45 minutes before the end we decided to leave. We had parked about 4-6 blocks away and had to make our way through the KC Star parking lot. It was then that I did not feel safe, as we passed groups of "thug" dressed and unruly acting youths. The 3 of us held hands and talked about the draw to this "look" or lifestyle and how violent it appears even on the outside. We made it safely to our car. The next morning I read that an attack on a white family (we are white), occured within less than a block from where we walked through only 30 min's or so later. It could have been us, unbelievable. We will probably not attend the parade again, unless we stay closer to Crown Center or maybe the west side of the street closer to the Washington Park area. I never realized how scary a city Kansas City looked like until this parade. The vendors openly selling pot leaves on everything to necklaces and hats to sunglasses. Unbelievable! A family friendly event? We really have a problem in this city and it starts with our black community. I would say 60% or more of the young African American men at the parade were dressed like the thugs that are idolized on MTV, etc. This was a an eye opening experience and my heart hurts for this community.

[Uncle Jay]

I'm not saying there were no problems. There were, but there are problems anywhere when you get over 100,000 people together. I certainly wish nothing like this would happen, but it will whether at a parade or in a parking lot or in a driveway or at the mall. Adam's post points out the bigger problems.

[Uncle Jay]

For those that say they will not come back to the parade, is it just the parade? Is it anything Downtown? Is it anything in KCMO?

The parade can't solve racial tension or pot smoking.

[Amie D]

My family will not be attending ANY downtown events in KCMO. Which is very unfortunate.

[Andrea]

I just want to say the woman in the "young Thugs" article is completely right with her comment to the downtown arena and the area period!! It's only gonna get worse, and an arena is NOT going to make downtown any better and attract new people/business.

[David]

To John F. Knipper,

Its really quite embarrassing to know that I live in a city with someone who is open and blatantly racist. The problem does not necessarily lie with the young black community in Kansas City. Yes, I can admit that some of the fault lies there but it is nowhere near their complete fault. The problem is with the stories and reports that are embellished by attendees such as yourself and are subsequently sucked up by the media in order to provide some sort of sensationalism to the daily news. I was born and raised in the Johnson County area, (and I am white) and have listened to the cries of "affluent" communities such as Leawood and Blue Valley for years; proclaiming that downtown Kansas City and its immediate surroundings are some sort of demilitarized zone that should be avoided at all costs. Yes, I do see the dozens of reports each week in the news discussing the numerous shootings, beatings, robberies, etc that occur in the downtown area. While I do believe these problems exist, I think that the media has placed a certain spin on things in order to make us believe that downtown is a cesspool in need of dire cleaning. Kansas City suffers the same problems as any metropolitan area, and I could easily argue that downtown KC is hundreds of times safer than other areas I have had the opportunity to live in or visit. (Chicago or San Diego anyone?) Before you go pointing the finger at a single community of Kansas City, take a look around you first. If you dig deep enough, you will find that the spoiled little rich kids from Johnson County often find themselves in just as much trouble as the "thug dressed and unruly acting youths" from the black community. If I had to place a wager on the incident, I would guess that a drunk member of the "white" family didnt know how to control his mouth which lead to the escalation of the problem. But will you find that fact reported anywhere in the news? No - because we all would like to point the finger at someone else, rather than looking at ourselves. It's a sad, yet realistic fact of our society. We never want to take the blame for something, we always want to point the finger at someone else, and when asked "How can we fix it?", we reply that, "It isn't *my* job to fix it" You also stated that "This area was full of drinking and the smell of pot. The majority of the crowd was young African Americans." OK, and your point there is what? If I were to attend a concert at Verizon Ampitheatre, (let's use the rock group 311 as an EXAMPLE) this is a concert in which the general audience would be composed of mostly younger, white people. One of the first things I would notice would be that the atmosphere consisted largely of those partaking in the comsumption of both alcohol and pot. I have attended several of the above mentioned groups concerts, so I speak from personal experience. Take some responsiblity for your own actions rather than blaming someone else. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that these incidents didn't occur; but I would guess that they didn't fold out in the way that people are describing them.

[Uncle Jay]

I'm sorry to hear that Amie, but is it because you feel unsafe? My daughter was assaulted 6 or so years ago leaving a restaurant at 119th and Metcalf. I still eat at restaurants along 119th street.

Crime can happen anywhere. I pay attention to what is happening around me whether I'm at Town Center or Downtown. I really enjoy experiencing parts of this city and the threat (or perceived threat) of crime will not change that. If I want really good BBQ I'm going to Bryant'sat 18th and Brooklyn. I'm not going to never eat Bryant's again because of the area of the city it is in. Just me.

[Erin]

I just have to say I am so unbelievably sick of the St. Patrick's Day Parade getting blamed for a problem that is clearly the city's problem. Over the past three or four years, the parade committee has been regulated by the city as to what they were going to do to make it a safer parade. The Parade Committee has done everything the city has asked of them, to do their part in making it a safer event. They put up barricades, they shortened the route, they changed the time, they worked with liquor control to crack down on drinking. What more can they do? The city shouldn't be asking the parade "What are YOU going to do about this problem?" The parade should be asking the city "What are YOU going to do about this problem so we don't yank this highly attended event out of your precious Downtown and take it somewhere that can provide a safer environment". Since when is it the responsibility of an event to correct the problems a city has with a some of its inner-city youth? It wasn't a violent parade, it is a violent Downtown. It is time for the City to stand up and take responsibility!

[David]

And to end my stand on the soapbox, I will add that every single year we hear of how security has been improved to reduce the number of problems or incidents that will occur. Regardless of how much effort we put into discouraging unruly behavior, we will *ALWAYS* have someone who will complain to the media or complain to their city officials that there are problems. It will never meet every single person's expectations. To those people: If you feel that the parade or related celebrations/gatherings are not to your liking, then I suggest an alternate venue for you and your family, such as your backyard or living rooms.

[MISS THAN G]

WHY. THAT'S THE QUESTION I WANT TO ASK MY YOUNG BLACK MEN. AND YOU WONDER WHY YOU CAN'T GET IN TO CERTAIN CLUBS OR CERTAIN PEOPLE DON'T WANT YOU IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS. IT'S YOUR OWN STUPID ACTIONS. I WOULDN'T WANT YOU IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD EITHER. IT'S TIME TO GROW UP. IF YOU WANT TO SHOOT AND GUN AND FIGHT WITH INNOCENT PEOPLE, GO JOIN THE ARMY OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE. NOW YOU HAVE MESSED UP A FAMILY FUN EVENT WITH YOUR WANT TO BE THUG SELVES. YEAH I SAID WHAT TO BE CAUSE IF SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE SHOT BACK AT YOU GUYS THEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN QUITE A DIFFERENT SCENE. I DARE ONE OF YOU TROUBLE MAKING WEED SMOKING GANG BANGIN WANNA BE'S TO GO TO CHURCH WITH ME SUNDAY AND FIGHT THE DEVIL. I CAN'T BELIEVE AN INNOCENT PERSON GOT PULLED FROM HIS VEHICLE AND BEAT-UP BY SOME STUPID UNEDUCATED (NO OFFENSE) BUT IF YOU WERE EDUCATED THEN YOU WOULD HAVE KNOW BETTER TO DO WHAT YOU DID. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I DON'T CARE IF YOU GET OFFENDED OR NOT BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE HARD ON ALL OF US NOT JUST THE STUPID WANNA BE'S THAT DID IT. GROW UP

[David]

Uncle Jay - I applaud you. =)

[Amie D]

I would not take my kids to a 311 concert. And kids shouldn't be at those types of concerts or events. However, the parade is suppose to be for families. I have lived in Inianapolis, and was not scared for my life going downtown by myself and walking around. I just feel bad for the people who worked so hard to make the parade a fun family event.

[ron]

go back to the day of now barricades and open drinking i say!!!! And no doubt someone bit off more than they can chew.

[ron]

go back to the day of now barricades and open drinking i say!!!! And no doubt someone bit off more than they can chew.

[Concerned Citizen]

If what happened to the white KC Star associate and his family had happened in reverse (meaning an attack on an African American family by a group of unruly young Whites), guess what would have happened? The uproar would have been defeaning. The national media would have descended upon this town with a focus placed on whites' unending racism against blacks. Why does no one ever point out that African-Americans are just as racist as whites? This was an example of African-American violence against a white family (there were children in this family who were beaten, too.) Why is this seemingly acceptable behavior in the public eye when it would not be (nor should it ever be) if it were in the reverse? What has happened to this country? Why is it ok for African-Americans to beat up on whites?

This is a shame, but what can be noted, behavior witnessed by Parade watchers can cause people (all colors) to develop images and become predjudice. This is learned predjudice, versus what some groups want to say is born predjudice. I like to think we all give everyone a chance but when stupid thugs threaten families who are trying to enjoy a community event witness fighting, shooting guns, intimidating language of course some people learn to become predjudice.

[Scott Quinn]

To Erin: I can't help but think that the Parade Committee suffers from Franklin's definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The changes you speak of are merely superficial. The constant in the equation is the location. None of the other parades around the city seems to have these problems.

[Lisa]

I did not attend this year's St. Patrick's Day Parade. However, I have attended for numerous years in the past & the parade was always a family affair for me. I have a question to pose. What are the city officials of Kansas City and the KCPD doing to resolve this issue? I understand that they had lots of forces available, but what about the gang unit? What type of preventative efforts were in place to stop this type of mayhem? It seems clear to me that something must be done to address this group who clearly does not attend the parade to pay tribute to the Irish families & representatives along the parade route. Their intent is to show their guns & act violently. What are the Kansas City city officials & the KCPD doing to address the need for the Annual St. Patrick's Day to be some sort of gang-banger event? In addition, what is the city doing to address the racial inequalities that exist within it? When I was living in KC, St. Patrick's Day was one of the few times each year my family ventured downtown together. In fact, the only time we would venture east of Grand Street was for the parade or to attend a Royals game. What is the city doing to address the segregation that is so evident in Kansas City?

[Erin]

Scott - I looks as though we seem to be making the same point. It isn't the parades fault, it is the circumstance of it's location and I would imagine the committee would start considering different locations for the future. Yes, the changes were superficial, but it was what was required by the City to "stop the violence" so the committee complied. I don't think they ever saw it as a sure fix...I think they were probably hoping that if they complied, they would get better support from the City's end.

Smoke weed, drink beer, forget the color of skin and please STFU!!

[Adam]

After I witnessed this mess on Friday afternoon I wouldn’t say that it is necessarily a color issue. It could happen to anyone of any color but it is a degrading issue that we as a society do not hold our children accountable for the things that they do. There is lack of discipline from the parents of the community in its entirety.

To solve the problems within the inner 435 corridor where the vast majority of KC’s murders occurred last year what needs to happen is self/community pride and spirit needs to be encouraged within the community. People need to quit being lazy. Get educated. These areas of blight will only return to successful areas when education is stressed. Lets find a way to make the KC school district better which in turn provides better education, better education means opportunities.

I am not speaking of hand outs or increasing education dollars but a total reform of the KC school district. The issue isn’t money in the district but accountability with the money that is spent. Education in the US is well financed. More than any other country in the world; yet our dumbed down test scores show that we are behind other industrialized nations in education.

When education is brought back to KC proper, you will see less crime, less violence, etc… Unfortunately we the people lack the discipline ourselves to see true educational reform happen. We do not like to evolve and change. My high school sciences teacher always stated that variety promotes survival if the environment changes. Well, the educational environment has changed yet we do not have a variety in educational access because we the people lack this discipline.

Off of my soap box now. 

[Horse Puckey]

Amazing, isn't it? You can have a beautiful, verdant field full of grasses waving in the breeze, gorgeous wild flowers dotting the landscape, and witness an amazing display of nature. Add in one horse, and sonner or later you will have the addition of a bit of horse puckey. Interesting how it is to this one bit of displeasure in the entire field that the flies gather around. Kinda like the news flies at a Saint Patrick's Day parade, huh?

[Adam]

No comment from anyone? Have I truly solved the issue? When should I address the KC School Board? Sign me up!

[Lisa]

Adam,

Where do you live? I'll take a big guess & that it is not within the inner 435 corridor. How can you claim pride in the community when you don't even live in the community. You see, that is the thing. Most of you want to solve everyone else's problems but don't realize that those living within the inner 435 corridor need to own & solve their own problems before there will be any sense of pride. Let us know when you are able to convince your neighbors to stand up & fight for a better life for them & their children & then maybe you can address your LOCAL school board members.

[Adam]

Lisa,

Wise comments! I live in Kansas City, MO. I am 1 mile outside of the 435 corridor. My school district happens to be the Liberty Schools. One of the pride an joys of the KC Metro area. Is there much violence up where I live??? No there isn’t. Why might I ask may be one of the reasons? I happen to live in a district where education is prominent and people care about their future and education. When I talk about community pride I am talking about Kansas City pride. I do not have to live in a certain area of the city to say that we should all take pride in our city which means invest in its future. To invest in ones future means being educated. Lisa, don’t make excuses. The title of this forum happens to be, “St. Pat's organizer: What more can we do? I am trying to come up with solutions. I am not trying to restate the problems like people tend to speak on.

Do you see Alvin Brooks solving any problems? He lives in the 435 corridor. Yes, he may make some points in front of a microphone when it is convenient. What about the other inner 435 corridor councilmen? Sandra McFadden Weaver? What about the black community activist that always comes out and bashes the police whenever he gets the time because everything in the inner city is racist this and racist that.

Where do you live Lisa? Johnson County? Let me guess. You are probably a liberal excuse maker as well instead of a take action individual.

[Adam]

Lisa,

My apologies for bringing politics into this specific forum. I am passionate about Kansas City. I just hate to see people in higher positions not solving the problems that reflect Kansas City’s image whether North or South of the River. We are one KC. I am a young 25 year old educated man who would like to do more for my city. I am not in a position of power except to vote for these officials who I have lambasted. You do agree that education is one key crime solver. Parade or no parade this city has bigger issues that need solved.

[Uncle Jay]

I'm not going to say anything about whether someone is a liberal excuse maker or not - I'm pretty liberal myself - but one of the biggest problems in this community is the question "Where do you live?"

It's like once you know the answer to that question, you know the person. Well no, you don't. I'm a Kansas Citian, whether I live in KC or not. If everyone would get that mindset problems would become OURS and not just THERES. We would work to solve problems instead of running away from them.

[Uncle Jay]

It helps if I spell THEIRS correctly. :)

[Lance]

I am a very proud black American (i've never been to africa). I grew up in the "hood" 24th vanbrunt around the "THUGS" you people are so afraid of.
I have to admit, me being a young black man i get sick to my stomach. When i hear about thease young "thugs", and the fights. But what i hate must of all is, the parents who get on t.v. upset that their child was mudered. Where were u at? momma, and dad?
where?

Coretta king passed away, but what i cant belive is that we are living her husbands dream.
the young "thugs" need everyones help. i dont care what color your skin is. we all should be in the hood helping out. i hear alot of black leaders today saying help your own, but thats wrong!! YOU ARE TEACHING SEGREATION!! you are no better thhan the KKK or any other racist group. thats is purely wrong.. we are all americans. all are!
stop calling them thugs, it seems to me u really wanna say (racial slur for black people)!

i've seen young white lady flash for geen beads at the preade. what are they called?

(edited by Greg Reeves)

[Uncle Jay]

"i've seen young white lady flash for geen beads at the preade. what are they called?"

Amie D.? Just kidding.

[Julie]

Here is a copy of a letter I sent to the K.C. Star:

To journalists Matt Campbell and Christine Vendel:

It is very troubling that violence broke out at the St. Patrick's Day parade. The committee and the city have worked very hard to eliminate any problems so that it can be a safe, family event. I don't know what else could have been done, short of gun control legislation, but that's another article, isn't it?

My husband is part of a group of parade participants, who, on the morning of the parade each year, go in costume to Children's Mercy Hospital to entertain the sick children who obviously can't come to the parade. It is the highlight of the year for him. So imagine my dismay when his face fell as he looked at the front page of the Kansas City Star the day after the parade. What was the focus and emphasis? Problems caused by a handful of hooligans; not the good done by many. Where was the article on the visit to Children's Mercy? The hard work and dedication of those who build the floats? The great additions of the big balloons and Mickey Mouse this year? The work of the committee to clean up the parade, make it for families--take the emphasis off drinking that always seems to accompany St. Patrick's Day in this country?

All the events needed to be reported--even the violence that occurred that day. But did it have to be the emphasis? What was your purpose? Does that pass for journalism these days?

I'm not a parade participant or a committee member--just the very disappointed wife of someone who gives his heart to those sick kids each year. Maybe you should look at the big picture next time.

Julie

[Adam]

Lancy, my friend:

You were alright until bringing the "n" word into the forum. But since you did. You know there is a difference between the words thugs and the "N" word. If not here is the definition and the context in which the term thug was used in this forum.

According to Webster’s Dictionary a Thug is a brutal ruffian or assassin. See also gangster. The definition of gangster is a member of a gang of criminals. In this scenario and forum we are properly using the term thugs because the group of criminals (15-20) happened to commit a crime of attacking individuals within a family.

I will not use political correctness when I speak and yes, these individuals are thugs. Whether you have a different definition other than Webster’s is your own personal problem.

Thugs can be of any particular color. Quit being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. You were off to a great start. Now finish your thought without being defensive with the terms used. It is okay to use Thugs when it is the true definition of the word. We all know there are black trash as well as white trash out there.

[Uncle Jay]

Going back a little now, I think someone missed the point earlier when they said the new arena will be a failure. What Mary Nestel in the original article was saying is that if the bad news is covered with the same veracity as the good by the Star, they create the perception that they truly are equal. They just simply are not equal. To the vast majority the parade was one of the best in years. Like I said earlier, if a Chiefs game was covered by The Star the way the parade is, no one would go to Chiefs' games.

[Crime Scene KC]

Thirty comments in this thread before the first racial slur (see Lance's comment, above).

One slur begets another. Please let's make it the last.

Thanks,
Greg Reeves

[Uncle Jay]

Very nicely done, Julie. Well said.

[Scott Quinn]

I have been to many Chiefs games where there was plenty of drinking going on and I have never seen anyone beaten by a mob or pulled out of his car. The real questions just beg to be answered, like why the police do not arrest kids who are at the parade during school hours without a parent or a guardian. The police have no problem violating rights and inconveniencing hundreds of drivers looking for "drunk" drivers, but they obviously do not take thugs seriously.

To Erin, actually we are not saying the same thing. The Parade Committee is irresponsible for continuing to hold the parade downtown. Forget that the parade is a waste of money, time and good will that the Irish community can desperately use. The organizers continue to promote the parade and run the parade as some "big party" for the city.

Maybe if the parade had a religious theme to it (unlikely, given the nominal Catholicism of many of this city's Irish "leaders") we would not have a problem. People who act like thugs generally are not interested in events like that.

By the way, Mary Nestle: Please define "certain people." What does this mean? Code phrases are so...British.

[Missy]

I JUST HAVE ONE COMMENT: JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY ON HERE BLAMED THE "YOUNG BLACK THUGS" FOR THE VIOLENCE Did you ever stop to try and figure out why? Were they disrespected? Did they feel threatened? And if the "white" community is so concerned chip in your tax dollars and help these "young black thugs" gain a better education. Get them school books and good teachers like Overland Park has. Chip in your tax dollars to aid successful futures for them.. The problem is hopleness for a generation that EVERYBODY wants to complain about, but NEVER lends a hand. Pray for them.

[jimmy]

Once again blaming the event on the actions of humans. That parade did not cause the f those losers to act inappropriate. When are we going to start policing our own. Raise your kids to respect themselves and others and none of this would occur. To often we let bad parenting go unpunished. Any fool can breed. The lack of proper upbrining causes the rest of society to deal with the aftermath. Look it is not like downtown area is booming with beauty and peace. St Patricks day has become idiot day. Let's face it. Drinking and fighting. Have of those morons could not fight their way out of wet paper bag unless they have a dozen drugs in their system

[Angela]

I, AS WELL AS A FRIEND, WERE ALSO IN THE MIDDLE OF THE VIOLENCE AND POLICE CHASING DOWN A "GUNMAN" AT 16TH OR 17TH AND GRAND AT ABOUT NOON. IN FACT, I WAS PUSHED INTO A BABY STROLLER (LUCKILY EMPTY) BY A POLICE OFFICER RUNNING AND PUSHING PEOPLE OUT OF HIS WAY. BUT, I HAVE TO SAY THAT I FEEL AS THOUGH A HUGE PART OF THE PROBLEM ARE THE NEW BAROCADES THAT ARE LINING THE STREETS. IT LITTERALLY TOOK US OVER 45 MINUTES TO WALK LESS THAN 2 BLOCKS FROM 16TH AND GRAND TO 18TH AND GRAND. THE FRUSTRATION OF THE "HERDED" CROWD WAS OBVIOUS. EVERYONE TRYING TO WALK WAS GETTING ANGRY AT EVERYONE ELSE WHO WAS PUSHING THEIR WAY THROUGH THE CROWD. IT SEEMED AS THOUGH LAST YEAR THE CITY LEFT US A LITTLE MORE WALKING ROOM BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS AND THE BAROCADES, WHICH MADE IT EASIER TO WALK. I ALSO HAVE NOT SEEN ANY REPORTS ON HOW MANY ESTIMATED PEOPLE WERE PICK-POCKETED DURING THIS "HERDING OF CATTLE" THROUGH THE STREETS. I KNOW PERSONALLY OF AT LEAST 2 PEOPLE THIS HAPPENED TO. IT'S A SHAME THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN THE SAME GENERAL AREA AS I WAS FEEL LIKE THIS PARADE WAS A DISASTER AND WILL MOST LIKELY NEVER BE BACK. THANK GOD FOR SNAKE SATURDAY!

[Adam]

Scott, My boy (sorry, had to do a little Dr. Evil from Austin Power's),

Again, we are making excuses. Self control. We all should be taught this from our parents. The gentleman who worked at the Star who was attacked wasn't being mouthy at all. He wasn't "racist" either. He allowed various people of various colors access to stand on his truck to view the parade. He shared his sodas and other fun parade watching entertainment material. This guy was less than 10 feet behind me. I am a people watcher and thus I saw the fight first handed. Thugs (true definition) do not need excuses to comment criminal offenses.

Also, as stated earlier. There is plenty of money spent per capita in the KC school district. Money doesn't always generate wanted outcomes. I came from a small farm community. We didn't have much in terms of money being poured into our schools yet our graduation rate was the highest in the county. Not all problems are solved by throwing money at them.

[Uncle Jay]

Scott,

Just a few points. I missed the part where someone got pulled out of a car. There are assaults at Chiefs games. Do you take children to Chiefs games? Many schools were on spring break last week. Is it irresponsible for anything to be held downtown, NAIA, conventions, car show, etc.? What money is being wasted? Show me where the parade is promoted as a big party. You obviously don't know what you are talking about - signed the Gaelic Mass

[Adam]

Again, I must apologize. This post is confusing as to who writes what. My message to Scott was intended I think for the Missy post.

Sorry Scott.

[Scott Quinn]

Adam,

Love the Dr. Evil. I totally agree; you have no argument from me. Still, I do believe that the Parade Committee does need to accept responsibility as well.

[Uncle Jay]

What would you have the parade committee do? If you only solution is to move the parade from downtown then you are not solving the problem, you are running from it.

To Missy,
Would you threaten a group of twenty people the opposite race of you if there where only two of you? Commen sense.

[Erin]

Well Scott I guess you are right...we weren't saying the same thing. I don't think the parade committee was being irresponsible. They have been trying to stick to the roots of this parade and support the city by keeping a fun and family friendly (at least in content) event in the heart of the city. It is interesting...last year the parade started an hour earlier and absolutely none of these problems occured. Maybe pushing it back to 10:00 would be a positive change again. Apparently people looking for trouble don't like to get up that early. I would like to say one last thing... a few posts have mentioned drunk people causing trouble. I don't believe drinking has been the issue here. It wasn't a crowd of crazy drunk people who beat up that family or fired any shots. It was the kids we have been talking about whether they are thugs or not. Kids who should never have had a gun in the first place. Where are their parents or anyone who is accountable for them?? My mom and I were talking about this topic yesterday. When she and my dad were younger and would go party at the parade (20 plus years ago)....NONE of these problems accoured and I guarantee that there was WAAAY more drinking going on! It is a change in society and that is the root of the problem the needs to be solved.

[Scott Quinn]

Uncle Jay,

You really do not think the parade is promoted as a big party? Are you nuts? Why would anyone go to the thing if it were not a party? I am unaware of assaults at the Chiefs game like the type described in the paper. Fair enough point regarding spring break--that probably did account for a lot of kids. Downtown is cool, and I am always glad to see events being held there. Still, there is an obvious problem with the parade being held there. Finally, don't assume religiosity just because of a Gaelic Mass--if it can even be called a Mass.

[Festy]

Thank you Mary Nestel and the Parade Committee for hosting one of KC's best annual events!

[Uncle Jay]

Maybe your friends promote the parade as a big party, but where does the parade committee promote it as a big party? People (I guess this is an assumption) go to parades to see the floats. Ask the ones that go to the American Royal, Brookside, Snake Saturday, Martin City, etc. Are all these just excuses to drink and cause trouble?

I don't understand your comments about the mass, but I'm not Catholic so I'll just let it go.

[dh]

Get rid of this event just an excuse for the "black thugs to come out of the hood ". I for one wish one of the thugs would get shot . Alvin Brooks what a laugh hes just out for the Blacks in Kansas City . It's time for Blacks to act live civilized people or go back to Africa !

Well I am Catholic, and a very involved one at that. I am not sure why you feel that the Gaelic Mass shouldn't be called a Mass. Scott, I respect the fact that you are on here voicing your opinion but I am baffled by the hypocricy and judgement that your comments about the parade committee seem to be laced with. Please visit the parade website www.kcirishparade.com and point out to me where the parade is promoted as a big huge party. Or tell me on the tv or radio advertisements where they encourage people to come and party during the parade. If anything they stress and stress that due to city law there is no drinking allowed on the street and with themes like An Irish Tribute to Walt Disney and the additions of giant balloons, they are encouraging the entertainment and family aspects of this event.

[Adam]

DH,

Go back to school and learn true American history. Blacks didn't leave Africa by choice. They were sold into slavery by other blacks. Same as we see in today's society. Blacks are slaves to themselves by themselves.

Now, unless there is a better country out there other than the US I would say we are all fortunate enough to be Americans. Pick a better country. I bet you cannot.

[scott]

Thug - derived from Thuggee. Generally taken to mean a ruffian, a miscreant, a person who behaves in an aggressive manner towards others.

These kids are thugs. Plain and simple. Everybody is blaming the city, the parade, or the black community of Kansas City. What about the parent(s) of these kids with not keeping track of what their child does, hang around, or whatever? Appearantly they weren't taught the difference between right and wrong.These kids doing the beating and the ones cheering them on, need to be taken behind a shed and beaten with a shovel. Maybe that would knock so common sense into them. Doesn't matter where you live or what color you are, everybody needs to teach their children about RESPECTING others and self improvement through learning how this world operates.

All sorts of people who look different from one another cause problems at the parade.

I haven't gone to the last three because of my last experience there with a raunchy drugged up person, a gun incident and a bunch of jerks making toxic waste clouds by burning rubber in a parking lot just as I went by. The police were on the roof of a building right by it and did nothing but watch.

If I want to watch the parade, I'll tune in channel 9.

It seems that this discussion is going a little deeper than just a few insodenses at the St. Patricks Day parade. We are not going to solve the problem if we are at each others throats.

I honestly believe that the city does all it can do with what it has to work with as far as security is concerned. It sounds as if some of the folks on this forum want the entire police dept. to be down at the parade watching over them. That's not going to happen. To me it seems like the city is steadily trying to improve the security year by year. 500 - 1500 police officers can't watch over 100,000 people and be able to stop every crime that occurs, that's impossible!!!

It seems to me that some of these folks think that the world is a happy place and just because they go out to or live in certain places nothing bad should happen to them. This is NOT the case. Always, always, always be aware of your surroungs. You know the thing that makes me laugh the most is when I'm watching the news, and a crime occurs in Olathe, Leawood, Lee's Summit, or Overland Park, the people always say,"...this type of stuff isn't suppose to happen here!" I guess just because there are not poor disadvatage black or white people in their part of town, then it should be crime free.

I am a young black man who didn't grow up in the 'hood'. I grew up in a middle class black neighborhood just outside of Raytown, I went to Raytown schools along with other blacks who didn't grow up in the 'hood'. From my experiences, it seems that trouble down in the 'hood' isn't a black thang, it's a poor thang. Contrary to the beliefs of some people who read these columns and post on this forum, not all black people are murdering, theiving "thugs". It's just painted that way through the media. Now, I know that some people will get bent out of shape because of what I wrote, but I not all of you guys are racist, but there is that small percentage. Blacks being depicted evil, crime lovin' "thugs" goes back hundreds of years.

Unfortunately, a huge number of blacks are poor and they live in the poorest part of town, and a lot of the folks take on a poor mind set which leads to them acting out their frustrations in a negative fashion. The same could be said for poor whites in certain areas. So the arguement of black leaders need to do something about this is garbage. This is an AMERICAN problem that needs to be addressed, not just a black problem. Think about folks, black people make up only 12% of the nation, we can't be causing all of the trouble.

Anyway, the security problems will never go away, but can and needs to be reduced. The racial problems, unfortunately will probably never go completely away, but it too can be greatly reduced through educational measures and understanding.

[Scott Quinn]

Okay, call it an event instead of a party.
Please explain how I am a hypocrite. I have nothing against anyone on the parade committee (I don't think I even know anyone on it), I just think they need to do something regarding the parade to make it safer (like not having it) or quit whining about the coverage from the Star.

Regarding the GM, I should not have brought it up. It's not relevant to this discussion, but I do not think anything having to do with Vatican II is legit.

[Pete]

Scott Quinn,

Regarding the "authenticity" of the annual Gaelic Mass - I think I'd much rather trust Bishop Raymond Boland's assessment of that event than yours.
God Bless.

[Missy]

Dh: You are very intelligent.. Keep up the good work! (and I HOPE you know that was a PUN) I am not going to waste my time on your comment. Adam, I believe that is who addressed me, I understand your position.. and I have nothing to say about it because your situation and others, prove successful.. however I feel like it is slightly different because of the times and society. I am not saying that their behavior was right, by no means, but ignorance (like dh) can improve with knowledge. I think that they should take full responsiblity for their actions and yes the parenting is a MAJOR issue.. but we are talking about a cummunity that is diminishing due to ignorance. The parents are uneducated and so what can they teach the children? I just posed the question b/c people are so quick to judge never TRYING to see the reason.

[mika]

I think that this type of crime happens every where in the general KC area from Overland Park, Lenexa, Blue Springs and etc. The kids who were there might have been on Spring break and there was no school. Everytime there is a problem in our community someone alway wants to blame the young black males. I was at the parade myself and I felt uncomfortable as a young black woman, yes there is some young black males that need a whoopin and I said whoopin all of them are not generally that way. My trouble was with some of the young drunk white males and females just like Blacks, Whites have a problem to they were very disrespectful and have no compassion for us either. I was called so many vulger names just for trying to walk down the crowded streets from the N word to a b&*ch. They might not go aroung fighting but they are just as unruley as the young blacks. I think that the problem lies within the city of Kansas City Missouri, they make sure that they keep the races segragated as far as in schools and social environments. It is okay for the white kids to hang out on Noland Rd and socialize but its not oaky for the blacks to hang out on Prospect or even a public park with out being chased out by police when there is no problems. Its the community leaders not the community.

david-

Look at the murder rate statistics, this city is high up there for the amount of people who actually live here to the number of people murdered. Gary Indiana (AKA East Chicago) was the murder capitol of the world, but its not in downtown chicago, in fact i feel safer walking down michigan avenue at night than I do Broadway in KC, get your facts right moron

[Adam]

Mika,

Mika,

We all segregate ourselves. No longer do we live in a country where one person is forced to live in a certain place. The last time that happened was in WWII with the Japanese internment camps. We go where we feel the most comfort and have the greatest opportunity for ourselves and our prosperity.

There is generally a lack of discipline in all communities. Lack of knowledge about one another. Lack of understanding and also a blame someone else for the demise of some instead of people blaming themselves. Examples: It is the governments fault I am on welfare, or it’s the white person fault I can’t get a good education, or it is the black person’s fault that I feel unsafe. Quit blaming others and we should all take the blame as parents and future parents. Discipline (not beatings) but true discipline and teaching basic right and wrong, allowing teachers to discipline their classes, etc…

Quit pointing one finger and start concentrating on the three fingers that point back at us when we point one at others.

[Baine]

Mr. Quinn,

I must take you to task on your comments regarding the fact that the Committee runs the parade as a giant drunk fest. You could not be further from the truth. The Kansas City St. Patrick's Day Parade Committee is made up of not only volunteers from the KC metro community but of also civic leaders and local personalities that give their time to make the parade the best product they can for Kansas City. What you are looking at is one day in the life of the parade. You must look deeper and look at what the Committee does for the city. Whether it is being involved with the chamber, local charities such as Harvester’s and Ozanam, local hospitals or the Irish community, the Committee ALWAYS puts its best foot forward. I could drone on and on about the events city wide they are involved in, but I will pare it down to one, since you brought religion into this. Gaelic mass at Redemptorist Parish. The Parade Committee is a proud supporter and Organizer of the evening mass every year held on "Snake Saturday". For that, the Committee asks for no recognition and no media coverage. Why is that do you think? Because the committee does not need the spotlight. They would rather their actions speak for themselves. Bottom line here is that this in my opinion, one of the best events the Committee puts on throughout the course of the year.My guess, Mr. Quinn is that you couldn't even tell me where Redemptorist is, let alone honestly tell me you have attended that mass. If you want to throw Catholicism into it, and say the parade should be religious themed and not a “big party”, where were you sitting when I was collecting at that mass?

Mr. Quinn, I must ask you where inside your mind do the words Walt Disney, Radio Disney; Thank you, Walt Disney; Children's Mercy Hospital; Mickey Mouse; Brogenn's Brigade; and the Go For the Green Food Drive become synonymous with some "big party" and not the true underlying theme for the parade- "a family event." The Organizers of this wonderful event in Kansas City cannot be and should not be held responsible for the actions of a few. Without divulging numbers, I can tell you with absolute certainty, as an ex-police officer, that the manpower on hand from the KCMOPD and the Committee was plenty to handle the already shortened parade route. There is only one person that can be responsible for their actions and that person is each individual. Personal responsibility is something that no one has touched on here.

So, before you go blaming the City, the Committee, the third shooter on the grassy knoll the Easter Bunny, the tooth Fairy and everybody else but the individual, look inside yourself and understand that it all boils down to a choice..

"I can be a good, civic minded citizen, or I can be a thug."

Plain and simple. So, What's it going to be for you, Mr. Quinn? You want to help make it better? Come to a meeting, get involved and help out. Otherwise, don't bash the Committee for what they are trying to do to make this a great event for everyone involved.

Thug life...man...yeah...these kids live in a place where there are no fathers, and in turn no disciplin. They sell drugs and carry guns because it is the quickest way to get rich and get out of the ghetto. typically the youth of the ghetto is just killing each other black on black crime, if it turns to black on white or white on black then we are going to have a serious problem.

I think the black communitty often forgets about the majority of the white communitty that is not rich and hates black people as much as they hate us. RURAL America is just as bad and they are waiting.

Both black and white people with educations and a will to succeed and life are trying to make this whole situation work. It is only the uneducated dope dealing thugs, meth dealing red-necks who pose a problem. Lets not forget this.

[mowater]

I found a number of comments and observations that I whole heartedly agree with. The one that caught my eye is if the roles were reversed with white youth beating up black families it would be a federal offense and we would likely be reading about riots in midtown. The part that really surprised me was the number of people whom were watching these thugs do their dirty work. Why? "In name of all that is right" would you not take action and make some kind of an attempt to intervene. One big reason these thugs do it is because "They Can".
If man and woman alike regardless of color would had stepped in it would had sent a clear message that this type of actions were not acceptable.
For the Johnson County person that seemed to think that a comment made from one of the members of the assaulted white family, was the cause of their assault...Shame on you! That's the biggest load of crap I have ever heard.
The thinking that if you remain silent and ignore what is taking place, you'll be exempt from any kind of abuse.
You obviously have not been around the block very many times.
My final thought is that the people watching this take place likely were cowards. I saw a similiar type of incident at Worlds of Fun when a group of young blacks would push and cut in at the head of the long lines to one of the rides, not once but, several times.The next time they came up they made the big mistake of cutting in front of my family, that included my wife and three small children. The thugs found that not everyone looks the other way. I am pleased to say that they underestimated several law abiding citizens and their intolerance to their disrespect for others. I personally was involved and I believe it'll be long time before this particular group of hoods try that again.
It's time to stand up for what's right. This political correct thinking is wrong and hope for those of you whom are offended will continue to look the other way.

Mika-

Who got in the drunken driving accident the killed and injured innocent people? Who attacked people at the parade while their dumb *ss buddies cheered them on. Who was packing heat at the parade? All young black men, not one of them was white, Mexican, Asian, European, no my friend they were all black. Get over yourself and start recognizing the problem within your community b/c you are the only one they will listen too. If black women would stop glorifying these idiots and refused to be with them, maybe it would wake up the young black youth in America.

You know I will admit this, it was probably some white hippie smoking the grass, and at a family event this is uncalled for and the idiots should have been arrested.

[scott]

Are we ever going to stop making EXCUSES for ignorance. I blame bad parenting. It is nobodies fault except for these dumbasses and their parents. People like this are the trash of our society. (This doesn't mean any particular group so calm down some of you). Trash is trash, no matter what the color of your skin.

[Adam]

Mowater,

I will admit that I was a coward (I happen to be black and white mixed). There were 15-20 thugs who were beating this family. Once the fight started there was an even bigger crowd of black youths cheering the group on. Add all of those individuals together that would total about 30-50 blacks cheering or participating in the action. I am one man by myself like I said who happens to be black. Thoughts ran through my mind to help. I motioned the police to the activity. If I would have run to the rescue of those being beaten I could have been included as one of the ones doing the beating. Could have been arrested, lost my job working at a downtown bank as a Sr. Project Analyst, thus lost my job, my income to pay for my newly built house, and future earnings potential for being arrested. We let the law get involved as is needed. Didn't have the man power or the weaponry to make a citizen's arrest.

Once again sir. Common sense prevailed. I didn't even leave immediately after the altercation happened for fear that running away from the threat would make me appear to be guilty of something I wasn't guilty of.

[Scott Quinn]

Baine, you are not very focused in your reply. My comments did not deal with bashing the committee per se. Good for them for bringing good to the city. I do not care if you are an ex-cop or ex-con, you are plainly wrong to state that there was adequate police protection--not when people are being beaten by mobs. Your silly comments regarding Redemptorist do not merit a response.

Here's a question for you, ex-cop (or con). When/if you were a cop and parents of teens hosting a party were present after you responded to a complaint at the residence, did you tell the parents to not worry about it since since each person has a responsibility for his actions? I bet not, nor should you have. In the same way the Parade Committee should do the honorable thing and cancel the parade, since (through no fault of their own) it always gets out of hand.

Consider this my civic duty.

[Uncle Jay]

It's not honorable to walk away from a problem and let others deal with it.

[Brian]

To Scott:
Why the hell should we help raise your kids? Do it right and they wouldn't be "hopeless".

[Erin]

Scott...I guess maybe hipocricy may have not been the best choice of words. My frustration comes from the fact that I can't seem to figure out exactly where it is you stand on all of this. First you say that the committee is irresponsible to keep the parade downtown. But then you say that downtown isn't the problem and that you would support any other event downtown. Then you say that the parade should take more responsibilty to make it safer...well which is it? The parade committtee is a group of VOLUNTEERS who have a love for this Kansas City tradition. They HIRE the Kansas City Police force to come and make the parade safe. I just don't know what more they could...

[Scott Quinn]

Erin, yes you are correct, I have not been very precise in my language and I apologize for that. Let me try again and hopefully do a better job. Downtown is, like I said, a pretty cool place and it is fun to go to various events down there. However, none of the other events involves cramming people together in quite the same way as the parade does. Part of the problem is, of course, that it is a free event, so there is nothing to stop anyone from coming down. My problem with the Committee is that they continue to have the parade downtown and all these problems happen. Then KC gets a link on the national AP wire screaming that violence--once again--comes to the parade in KC. The Committee can, as I wrote earlier, whine about it or simply stop having it downtown. But as hosts of the event they cannot throw up their hands and pretend like they have no role in the solution.

[scott]

-Why is everyone pointing the finger at everyone elese except for the ones who acted like fools during the parade? The police, and parade organizers didn't go around beating people up. It was these morons who committed this cowardly act against a family. The kids are the ones who the cancer here. Why don't they have undercover cops next. Two or three for each block of the parade and see what happens.

[mowater]

To the kind person that suggested we give more of our hard earned tax dollars to accomodate the thugs and their opportunity to education. I have to wonder about all the people whom, attended one room schools years ago that operated on very little capital or tax assistance. Those kids were educated and grew up to be valuable members of our community. This is a lesson in economics. The problem here is not money or taxes, rather the basic and fundamental reality that thugs do not regularly attend school or if they are then they are not applying themselves. Bottom line!!!
Last the concept that those viewed as poor have that as an excuse to be disrespectful and disobey the laws of the land. Thank God during the depression they didn't know that this was an option for their behaviour. It's truly is time to stop making excuses and understand that young people need to know right from wrong then help them with a reality check to understand the results to bad actions towards other people and property!
Thank you Dr. Spock for screwing up an entire generation believing it is wrong to discipline your children.

[Erin]

Scott- I think it is hard for the committee to give up on something that they have worked so hard on just because of one small group of people. If you aren't involved in the committee you just can't possibly understand. We put so much heart and sole into this event along with all the others we do through the year. I would say that 75% of us do it because we are so proud of our Irish Heritage and love that there is an entire day that the whole city can celebrate with us. I would say the other 25% are a part of it because they love this city and they love being involved in great civic organizations. We just aren't willing to give up. Like I mentioned earlier....last year according the the KCPD standards...there were ZERO incidents. And the parade was in the exact same location with the same barricades and crowds...for some reason the small percentage of trouble makers just didn't go. Again...maybe it was because they didn't feel like waking up that early...I just don't know. But it is really frustrating that MY national holiday....MY heritage gets pissed on and dragged through the mud because of poor choices that other people make.

[mowater]

To Scott,

I appreciate your integrity. Your concern and desire to help was noble. You are right in that you represented just one person. If 50 or 60 "Scott type of people" had the same heart then it could had been different. Then again sometimes we have to take one for the gipper and say what the heck and jump in. Thank you Scott for desiring to do right. I mean it!

[Erin]

One thing I forgot to mention...I don't think it is fair to say the committee has thrown up their hands and pretend that we shouldn't have any role int he solution. As I mentioned earlier...we do a lot to try to remedy the situation. You wouldn't believe the amount of money that goes into these efforts. The barricades alone are over $30,000. Also, we pay for the police to be down there. This isn't something the KCPD or the city gives us for free. And if you have ever worked on an event that required the help of KCPD then you know it isn't cheap. These may seem like very superficial solutions to you but as a volunteer organization we have to go with the reccomendation of the cioty and KCPD and those are the regulations they gave us to make things safer. Besides pulling the parade out of downtown, what would be a non-superficial solution to the problem??? Help us out here!!! I don't think runnign from downttown is the best solution...

[Joshua]

Erin I have to totally agree with your statements. I worked as a volunteer for the Irishfest and I participate in Irish Heritage all year not just one day as an excuse to get drunk. I was at 16th and Grand. I witnessed some of the problems that were there. I smelled the pot and saw the fights. I don't know what the solution is, but if a 6:00 AM parade solves the problems I'll go to a 6:00AM parade.

[Crime Scene KC]

Hi mowater,

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you meant your most recent comment to be directed at Adam, not Scott (the commenter before and after Adam).
It's a very easy mistake to make. This blog interface (TypePad) is confusing. First comes the comment, then a separating line, then the date/time and commenter's nick.
I hope this helps.

Greg Reeves

[Solid Citizen]

This colloquy seems like some kind of civic hallucination. And the first casualties are truth and balance in reporting and discussing events. St. Pat's Day has become an increasing problem for this community, be it at the parade in/near Downtown or in Westport. Drunken thugs and rowdies of all description are drawn out on the streets like they had a cosmic hall pass. Don't need it in my neighborhood (near Westport), thank you. Gatherings of all kinds have become almost impossible in the city, because we have abject political cowardice about even the most basic issues of public order and political correctness so blinding that real discussion just falls off the table (at the newspaper most of all). Please don't anyone suggest that the Kansas City School District, wastrel of billions of dollar of public resources, hasn't been adequately supported. Please spare us the litany of failed urban liberal orthodoxies which produce only more boondoggles, not solutions. Those of us who have long fought the battle living in the city need not be insulted with the speaking in tongues, and please lets quit passing around the excuses. There was a shooting recently at the doors of Crown Center because a young "crowd" got out of hand. Westport was paralyzed for years weekend nights in good weather by sheer disorder -- years when no politico in this community would stand up and say diddly -- including her Honor, never-saw-a-public-spending-program-she-didn't-like. It is a lot more fun and giggly to go to ribbon cuttings for absurdly subsidized building projects and arenas and stadiums than do the heavy lifting of insisting on public order and building real communities. It is no "fun" at all to insist on decent public behavior. And if a term like "decent" sounds archaic and quaint, then maybe it is time to forget large public gatherings altogether. Except I can tell the person who wouldn't take kids to a 311 concert at Verizon -- I did just that with some middle schoolers a few years ago and the security was flawless, persistent and very visible. It can be done. Not even that may work on "Grand" Avenue, but if putting-on these things just means putting people at risk, then forget it. Or take it elsewhere, because the City of Kansas City isn't remotely up to the task of providing public safety. You have the St. Pat's Parade in Overland Park or Lee's Summit, if they will put up with it, and you will have a safe event -- or there will be no event. Simple as that.

[Misha]

To all -

Everyone writing here, for the most part, are all seeing the many pieces in this picture. Fundamentally, I do not believe, and I would imagine that the majority of readers feel the same, the event (parade) shouldn't be blamed for crime. Crime can happen anywhere, at any time. Of course, when you put large groups of diverse people all together crime can happen. There is always this risk within large community gatherings. Let me stress the word COMMUNITY! That's what we ALL are. The sad fact is that our community is suffering greatly and crime is one symptom. This is not a new statement by any stretch. The challenges have already been mentioned by the many people who have written earlier:

1) Parents need to take responsiblity for being their children's teachers, first and foremost.
2) Schools need to do the best they can to educate kids with the funding they are provided by the city. This means proper use and management of it, which can be one problem. If there isn't enough money, then how do we get more!
3) Churches need to outreach, outreach, outreach!
4) Civic leaders need to stop talking (and soap boxing) and start acting to build community bridges.
5) Media need to shut up! or report news that would be considered uplifting to all our spirits. How can good spirit ever come from bad news? And if you just have to report everything, for goodness sake, (as others have suggested) don't emphasize the negative! In order to have hope, our communities need to be given good news over the bad. I certainly see the media as being yet another way for some of the attention needing youth to get a means to their end.
6) Police - I know you are probably doing all that you can. Crime is what you try to deal with, but we can't blame it on you.
7) The City - boy can we really blame anything on such a vague abstraction. This comes down to the integrity of the Civic Leaders which I have already addressed minimally.
8) Businesses - Some, but not all, businesses near these large events, gain some financial benefit from having them nearby. Are they investing themselves enough in their community to be more profoundly impactful?

The Parade Committee are only one small group of people who try to bring some community good will and hope into Kansas City's downtown. They can't address all the other "jobs" listed above, but they are, I'm sure, willing to provide support for building bridges and trying to help others.

The problem with our youth is the bigger problem and the most troubling by far. How do we all, with each of our particular strengths, plan to address it appropriately? Mayor Barnes - Do I hear a reason for a townhall meeting or whatever a community forum is called these days?

[mowater]

Mr. Reeves,

Yes, you are correct.
I made the error of getting in a hurry, resulting in getting the names confused.
Please accept my apology gentlemen....

Thank you for the correction.

You remind me of a basketball coach I know.

[openmind]

A couple of FYI's to you doomsday prophets.

-Violent crime is actually at its lowest level ever recorded (as of 2004, most recent data I could find).

-mowater...I believe that those alive during the depression were aware that this was an option, seeing as how the homicide rates (the only statistic available) were at some of the highest rates in recorded history.

-While violent crime is no doubt one of the primary concerns for citizens of any country, there are certain factors that lead us to over exaggerate the problem. Murders are usually at the beginning of the news and are shocking. Humans remember shocking instances more readily than those which are mundane. Therefore, we think that this is a larger problem than what it really is. The fact is, we are much safer than we were 10 years ago.

-Minorities are overrepresented in media portrayal in nearly every negative category imaginable. For example, although they only make up about 40% of the people on welfare, they are shown in 80% of the footage accompanying stories on welfare. They are also overrepresented in violent crime stories.

-We tend to remember information that confirms our already held beliefs much easier than information that refutes those beliefs. For example, when we hear of a crime involving black people, and we already believe that black people commit a lot of violent crime, we remember that story more vividly and in more detail than a story about a white criminal. This is one of the main reinforces for prejudice, and involves more than just beliefs about crime. We look for information to support our hypotheses, not refute them.

-I agree with the poster from Raytown (I went to South myself). The biggest predictor of crime is income level. I truly believe that, although they wouldn’t admit it, poor whites have much more in common as far as lifestyle with poor black than they do rich whites. It is similar to the poster who commented on the redneck meth dealers.

-Because of the influence that poverty has on crime (refer back to the statistics on the 30's if you forget), I would have to say that it should be no surprise that they have a disproportionate number of people who turn to crime. There are a disproportionate number of blacks in poverty. This should come as no surprise considering that whites had a 200 year head start on their fortunes. To any white person who says that they need to bring themselves out of poverty, I would be willing to wager that for every white person who leaves poverty behind and becomes a success, there is a black individual who is just as strong.

-The bottom line is that the fight of crime is something that will be ongoing as long as the wealth disparity in this country continues to grow. In fact, even if this problem is solved, there will continue to be problems with crime. Rich people commit violent acts too!

[openmind]

To give up on those individuals who are most at risk for crime would be a disservice not only to them, but to ourselves as Americans. We are a nation that is remarkably fortunate compared with those around the globe, yet we all to often resort to a "I'm OK screw everyone else" retoric that is getting tired. I have had the privliage of living amongst both the poorest of the poor and the richest of the rich, and I can tell you that they are all good people inside. Some people have the fortune of never finding out what they are capable of given their surroundings. Those same people are the ones who are quick to discount the importances of the environment they are brought up in, and even quicker to attribute thier success to themselves. I hate to burst your bubble, but statistics show that you are giving yourself a little too much credit.

All the Best,
Openmind

I was more liberal when I was in college...now that I have to pay taxes I've become more conservative. Throwing money at a problem doesn't always help, it often breeds irresponsibility. (case in point - the Kansas City School District)

Bottom line, these thugs do not respect the St. Pat's tradition and are victimizing innocent paradegoers. I heard that Southeast High only had 100 students in attendance on St. Pat's Day. The rest were downtown "wilding." The problem can be traced back to the black youth gatherings 10 years ago at 63rd and Prospect that city leaders fought to stop, because of the violence and trouble that ensued. At one point Cleaver wanted to herd them into a drive-in theater lot, which didn't fly. Well, guess what...they moved all right, over to Westport. Now they go anywhere they want, which would be fine if they could act decent and refrain from shooting and thugging.

I predict one of the floats will get shot at in the next couple of years and the parade will move to Overland Park or NKC. Don't even get me started on the Power and Light District or the Sprint Center. They'll draw crowds alright...kids playing hooky looking to roll some tourists. I think the future of downtown is reflected in all this, and it ain't good.

I suspicion that the true mayhem at the parade may have been underreported. Our city leaders have a stake in keeping us "excited" about how great downtown is/will be.

Funny how the 'n' word is a no-no, unless blacks use it. in songs, to each other, on radio, on tv, in rap. our kids listen to the music with the 'n' word throughout. then, of course, they should automatically know not to use it. come on.

clean up your own house.

[openmind]

One of the previous posters does an excellent job of explaining why I find many conservatives so infuriating.

"I was more liberal when I was in college...now that I have to pay taxes I've become more conservative.”

So you really, really want to feed the poor, I just don’t want to have to pay for it. Someone should do some good, just as long as it doesn’t come out of my wallet. I am all for fiscal responsibility, however I dont hear too many conservatives bitching about the Iraq war even though it costs many billions more than any social aid program. When are conservatives going to realize that they have a responsibility to people beyond themselves? The rich wouldn’t be rich if it weren’t for the poor doing all of the grunt work and then giving them their money back by buying their products. I for one make a good amount of money, and have no qualms about giving more. I do agree that throwing money at a problem in an of itself does not make it better, but I promise you it makes doing good a whole heck of a lot easier.

[Steve]

Like it or not, you are being shown the future of downtown Sprint Arena, KCPL District call it what you wish. Some of these bleeding hearts will have to wake up and get out of their fantasy world they live in. I drove around downtown daily in the 80's the violence and the problems were there then but nobody cared because it was just downtown, land of the homeless and thugs. It will only get worse and until Kansas City Mo realizes you can't shine a turd no matter how hard you rub it or how much the wax costs it will always be a turd. Downtown is less than 3 blocks in any direction from for lack of a better term "ghetto", put on an event downtown and all it does is keeps the thugs from driving more than a mile to rob and assualt the inncocently ignorant suburbanites.

[Notta Thugg]

Hey Missy - get real. What could possibly be justification for thugs of any color to beat the crud out of a family? Bullies are just that - bullies. And there is simply no excuse for doing what they did - even if they felt "dissed."

Forget the racial agenda and just look at things in general. When is it justified to gang up and terrorize anyone?

openmind, I am not a conservative now, just more conservative. I voted for Kerry, for God's sake. I do not support the Iraq war because I think it was a sham from the get-go. However, that's another discussion. Yes, I want to feed the poor. I don't think I should have to feed them money from my pockets at gunpoint when they are wearing more expensive clothing than me and not paying to feed their own kids. The entitlement mentality is sickening, and believe me, from my vantage point, I see it every day. It doesn't do any of the future generations any favors, ours or theirs.

[Ryan C Da one and Only]

I hate, I repeat hate the way the gatekeepers portray the African-American community. For one incident an entire community is blamed. The whole matter should be taken care by the legal system. Let the law do it's job, and stop blaming the problem on everyone of color;instead blame the few "thugs" that did it. Would it be fair to say that the fraternity that was banned off our Campus at CMSU, for throwing a chicken and beer party, where they imitated the same thugs that beat the white family to a bloody pulp. Are these same "white boys" on Martin Luther King day when they drank 40ozs and wore brown mask and painted their faces to look black and make a mockery of black stereotypes a result of the entire white community of the U.S? Because they came from all over the U.S. If so, I should send a letter to the MuleSkinner and tell them to fix their problem. I'm advocate of peace, I grew up on 39th and South Benton in KC, my house was right in front of the bus stop. I know all about the hood and then I know about Lee's Summit, Grain Valley, Blue Springs. And to every cubby hole of our metropolitan area there are thugs, even whites ones. They drive Escalades with 22'' rims, they have wild meth parties, with tons of pot and lots of girls. Just like the hood. Corruption, violence, racism, lawlessness, and muder harbor in every city of America. If "y'all really gave a damn why doesn't the city spend money on after school programs, since the economy is rising and parents have to work to provide for their children. Instead of putting blockades up, why don't they involve the community publicly to help out with city-wide events. Why can't the city of Kansas City grow up and take responsibilty on our streets by enforcing compassion and understanding through the invisble barriers that separate our communities. When will we all take the blame,for being un-educated. The man that knows anything, knows that he knows nothing at all. So to ultimately learn we have to learn about ourselves by looking in the mirror first, and then offer a hand to help ourselves and then our brothers and sisters. Please stop the name calling and finger pointing. The truth is bulletproof. The proof is 100.

[openmind]

my apologies. In fact, I agree with you previous post. Steve, I do think that it is possible to bring downtown back to life. I have seen it work very successfully in other cities,all it takes is the correct approach. I do feel that your mentality will do nothing to psoitively contribute to the situation, in fact it will likely make things worse. If you prefer segregating yourself to attempting to remedy the problem, go right ahead and stay in Johnson County or Lee's Summitt. I will continue to support any intelligent and positive efforts to address the problem.

A quick biblical Economics lesson for Conservatives and Liberals who claim to be Christian:

The Bible describes two classes of poor people: the oppressed, who are victims of poverty due to outward circumstance, and the sluggards, who are poor due to their own laziness and irresponsibility.

Throughout the Bible, we see God repeatedly defending the cause of the oppressed, and calling on His people to do likewise. Jesus began His ministry by telling us that the oppressed poor were a primary focus of His concern: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord" (Luke 4:18-19).

The sluggards, on the other hand, are a different story. "Sluggards waste opportunities (Proverbs 6:9-10), bring poverty on themselves (Proverbs10:4)...and are unable to accomplish anything in life (Proverbs 15:19)...A sluggard is prideful and lustful (Proverbs 13:4)...wasteful (Proverbs 12:27)...and lazy (Proverbs 24:30-34)...Though he continually makes excuses for himself (Proverbs 22:13), his laziness will consume him (Proverbs 24:30-34), paralyze him (Proverbs 26:14), and leave him hungry (Proverbs 19:15)." (3) Strong words? Yes, but for a person in this category, help is all but impossible a