Ward Parkway shooting

UPDATED: Two victims died at Ward Parkway, plus the shooter. An officer was shot and injured at a gas station on Bannister, but should be OK. And it all apparently comes back to a dead woman who was found in her home near 93rd and Cleveland earlier this afternoon. The Star's latest report is here.

Reports from other local media: KMBC, KSHB, WDAF and KCTV. The story was also the lead or a secondary headline for many national media. Most of them were picking up the AP feed, available here.

We had extra people working today. I went to the scene at 93rd and Cleveland, which was comparatively quiet compared to the mall. The neighborhood's north of Bannister, west of U.S. 71 -- older, blue-collar. It's next to a large apartment complex where I've been for police calls, but this street is relatively peaceful, homeowners said. Talked to a few neighbors, who said the residence of the house in question was an elderly lady. They said she was nice, a longtime resident, but most said it had been a few days since anyone had seen her.

Reaction from local bloggers ...

General Blather: I blame the idiots in the media for sensationalizing this crap. I blame NBC for assaulting us with visions of that crazy asshat responsible for the Virginia Tech shootings two seconds after the last victim fell. Simple-minded peons now know how to get their faces on every major network without having to go through mindless auditions for crappy reality shows.

There's a fine line between insanity and genius: If you didn't know, there was a shooting at the Ward Parkway Mall today. The TJ Maxx that I work at is there. I was NOT at work today, and I'm perfectly fine, if a little freaked out. All the news said was that the shooting happened in a Starbucks (WTF?) and perhaps 3 civilians had been killed, and perhaps a police officer. This is very sad. There had been an increase in crime since the Bannister Mall closed.

Happy In Bag, who knew people who were there when the shooting happened

Kruse Kronicle

Tidy Bowl

Hip Suburban White Guy, who argues for tougher gun-control.

Allison Stein's Live Journal

Blue Girl, Red State

The official KCPD statement: Officers were called Sunday, April 29th, at about 149 pm to the 3700 block of East 93rd street to check the welfare of an elderly woman.  When the officers arrived, they discovered a dead woman inside the home.  Officers were also told the woman's car was missing.  The officers put out a description of the woman's car.

At about 311 pm, an officer on patrol saw the vehicle that was reported missing from the woman's home.  The officer stopped the car at 1311 Bannister road.  When he stopped the car, the driver began shooting at the officer.  The officer returned fire but was struck in the arm by one of the gunman's shots.  The officer put out a description of the vehicle to officers.  It is unknown if any of the officer's shots struck the man.  He was transported to an area hospital for treatment.  He was treated and released.  The officer is 44 years old and has been with the department since January 1992.

At about 327 pm, we received a call regarding an outside disturbance with shots fired at the Ward Parkway mall, 8600 Ward Parkway.  While on the way to the call, the officers received information that a man was inside the mall with a long gun.  Officers from Kansas City and Leawood, along with security from the mall, confronted the man inside the common area of the mall.  During this confrontation, the man was shot to death by the officers.  It is believed the dead man is the one who shot the officer on Bannister road.  His vehicle was found in the parking lot.  Additionally, two people were found shot to death on each side of the vehicle the man was driving.

Comments

[CareBear]

I can't believe this is happening again. I was watching NASCAR when they broke in. Why, I just cannot understand. What is it going to take to make it all end? My heart hurts so bad for the lost ones, children now scarred for life as their parent tries to protect them and keep them out of harms' way.

[ENDelt282]

I live a few blocks away and have been doing yardwork all day. I knew something big was happening...cops were flying down 85th like crazy. last I heard, 2 civilians dead, the shooter is dead, one officer injured at Ward, and one officer not critically injured at a connected Valero gas station shooting.

that sucks.

[CareBear]

ENDelt282-why? I really can't understand why there are so many out there willing to take other peoples' lives.

[BS Steve]

CB,

I actually heard there was children left behind in the shopping mall as the parents just ran out scared.....And also heard there was a few people trampled from others trying to get out in a hurry....Kinda reminds you of a herd of livestock doesnt it????? How sad is that????

[CareBear]

BS-thank God, someone to talk to. Last I heard there were children being protected by their parents. If you heard something different, that makes me want to vomit. I never use this word, but I'm going to now, who in the H*LL who leave their child behind to save their own A**es?

And yes, chuckle between tears, it does remind me of livestock comin' home. Tuck your butt and run!

[The DB]

I hope to god that they didn't leave their kids behind. That is a crime in itself.

[burnt]

and yet nothing about the shooting that occured in westport friday night. why is this shooting any worse. from what i was told, 2 people were either killed or seriously injured. does westport have some deal to keep their crime out of the news?

[The DB]

burnt:

I think it's called the Westport Business Owner's association...

[The DB]

Or let me rephrase that: The We$tport Bu$ine$$ A$$ociation...

[CareBear]

The DB-I am hoping BS Steve is wrong. I would step in front of anything to protect my daughters, and my friends. I cannot understand what makes someone so hopeless, so uncaring.

burnt-I haven't heard anything about a shooting in Westport on Friday. I'll go see if I can find something.

[Quad Kings]

When are we going to accept the fact that keeping society (somewhat) protected from whackos is more important than the so-called right to absolute privacy? These whack-jobs live in anonymity so no one sees the signs. Then we question why we can't protect ourselves when they finally snap! A little disconnect here?

[blarney]

This stuff happens and nothing going to stop it because parents don't raise their children anymore they let t.v.'s, mall security and ushers at the theatre do it for them.

[Old Crank]

The media defiently makes a story where it finds one. How many people died this weekend in traffic accidents? Why does this have to be hashed and re-hashed so copycat idiots get new ideas?

It is a sad world we live in-

[Joe]

The sensational journalism, vultures if you will, will continue so long as we continue to buy into it and support it.

The more sensational, the more ratings, the more ratings the more money. The more money, the more presetige. The more prestige, the more greed and ... and ... and ... ad infinitum ,ad nauseum.

Shock and gore. Shock and gore. Sex, shock and gore. It sells - and America buys it.

Come on people. Wake up.

[The DB]

Are you folks reading (or watching) the same news I am? This cat is (allegedly) responsible for 3 crime scenes - possible death of a woman and stealing her car, shooting an officer, and the shootings at a busy mall. 4 people dead, 3 or more injured. Looks like newsworthy to me. Especially if you have family or friends out shopping.

CB,
After hearing stories from therapists who see patients...it really isn't that hard.

What each of us know as right and wrong is all relative. How each of us are brought up, voluntary or not, as well as the environment we live in plays a big part how we see society and other humans.

I would not be surprised to find that this 50yr old man had some problems. I'm not making excuses, but what you and I think of "not right" just doesn't work for some people...they are on some other wrong/right scale.

[CareBear]

Joe-are you doing something about it?

[CareBear]

who posted to me at 9:20? I see what you're saying, but would like to chat more.

4 people dead, 3 or more injured. Looks like newsworthy to me. Especially if you have family or friends out shopping."---The DB

Yes, it's newsworthy. I seen where it was on every major news outlet on-lin. This is some pretty serious crap.

It makes me wonder what makes people tick, then like a timebomb, they explode. I have't read yet where anyone was leaving their children behind, I hope that is not the case, like carebear said, I would be hoovering over my kids like a cloud.. Theres no way I would leave my kids behind...

[blondie2hot7]

that last one was me, not the other anonymous

[K]

The Westport shooting was on the news, and both people that were shot are expected to have full recoverys and the suspect was apprehended on scene. This ordeal today is a much bigger deal....it could have gone from bad to worse in seconds....in an open area with no officers around. Westport has officers readily available and usually walking the streets.....

[CareBear]

blondie-the only thing I have seen so far was parents were covering up their children. I hope to high Heaven The DB misread. It is more than newsworthy, it should be a wake up right here in the Metro area. I wish we could do a roll call and account for everyone.

[CareBear]

Thanks K, I tried to find something about it and couldn't. I cannot imagine the terror that was in the minds of those involved.

[John Weir]

This stuff happens because parents let T.V. raise their kids? The guy was supposedly the age of a grandpa. I love the armchair psychologists. They know none of the details, yet know that modern society is to blame. People have been shooting other people from the time guns were invented. Before that they were shooting each other with arrows. This was long before T.V. was invented. Society and parents are not to blame. The shooter is to blame. He is dead now. Here is a suggestion. If someone wants to kill lots of other people, get a government job. They call mass murderers on a government paycheck "heroes".

[OLE MO/KY FELLER]

WE HAVE GOT TO GET GOD BACK INTO OUR SCHOOLS! AND WE MUST GIVE TEACHERS THE RIGHT....NO WE MUST REQUIRE TEACHERS TO DOLE OUT PUNISHMENT TO STUDENTS. TEACH THEM RESPECT FOR ALL THE THINGS THAT WE FORMERLY WERE TAUGHT. THEN WE WILL STOP THESE STUPID SHOOTING SPREES. (MAYBE NOT ENTIRELY, BUT I FEEL STRONGLY THAT THEY WOULD BE GREATLY REDUCED.) WE ALSO NEED TO NOT ONLY BRING BACK THE DRAFT, BUT PUT IN MANDATORY MILITARY TRAINING FOR ALL MEN...RIGHT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL...YES, BEFORE COLLEGE!

[CareBear]

What exactly are you trying to say "John Weir"? I can't make a lick of sense out of anything other than the shooter is deceased.

[The DB]

CareBear:

Looks like the dude turned a neighborhood issue into a murder, shooting an officer, and killing innocents. I saw a neighbor on TV that said he had issues, (mental and alcohol)and was fired from Target a couple years ago.

And to the "thugs from Bannister Mall" theory...this was a caucasian in his 50's.

Don't be too early to judge. Even I don't want to judge on the circumstances. The police have a whole lot of investigating to do.

[Uncle Ted]

OLE MO/KY-What do you mean get God into the schools? Being an omnipotent deity, what's keeping him/her/it out? If you're saying that teachers should be preaching the Good Book rather than lecturing about a good book, then I think you should probably put that idea back in the oven, because it sounds half-baked. I am a teacher. What the hell place do I have telling kids about God? Whose God? Mine? Yours? Isn't that the parents job? Do you really want a math teacher instructing youths in the ways of achieving salvation? I can barely instruct them about the quadratic formula. Religion in public schools? Not the answer. Sorry to go on so long, it's just dumb "solutions" that drive me nuts.

[CareBear]

Thank you The DB-I'm not judging anything, other than my heart is breaking for these people. There is indeed going to be alot of investigating to do. Would you please dicipher what "John Weir" was trying to say? I've read it 4 times, and still can't figure it out. Of course, one could say I'm completely menopausal, and that would account for the lack of brain flow!

[jlight1234]

Hmm. mandatory military service? That really helped Timothy Mcveigh.

[Not so Ole Feller]

OLE MO/KY FELLER: I see what you are trying to say, but your logic is very much flawed. You cannot put this on the schools without addressing the important issue...the home. What were "all the things" you were taught at school that aren't being taught now? What specific "things" do you see that need to be changed? As for your draft comment, what is your logic? It seems kind of counter-intuitive to me. Are you saying that in order to stop people from killing we need to train them how to kill? That's what it seems like to me. Now don't twist what I'm saying, I'm not suggesting that our military trains soldiers to go on killing sprees, but isn't the fundamental purpose of the military to protect, which includes the use of force and sometimes results in the taking of lives. Just some thoughts

[Linda Lou]

I don't think God being in the schools or a mandatory draft would have helped this 50 year old white male nutcase. In fact, he probably did grow up with God in the schools.

It will be interesting to see how the mall weathers this. I remember when Thrills nightclub over by Bannister was hanging by a thread (the neighborhood was changing and there was lots of racial tension) when a crazy white guy came in and stabbed a white woman to death. She didn't even know him, it was a random deal but the club was a ghost town after that.

[blondie2hot7]

I don't think God being in the schools or a mandatory draft would have helped this 50 year old white male nutcase. In fact, he probably did grow up with God in the schools.---Linda Lou

I agree with you, it has nothing to do with God being in the schools. If the parents want to teach their children, so be it. The guy in this case was 50 yrs old, and I am pretty sure they still had prayer in the classroom.

People need to quit blaming the parents and God for every random nutcake that goes on a shooting spree. He apparently had some issues, but it's over, done, we can feel safe again, or at least until the next one happens

[The DB]

CareBear:

I read his "post" quite a few times. I guess he has a problem with the politicians or the military in the US. That is my take, but I could be wrong (which I am a lot) Just his rant about "government paycheck".

[Tim Head]

Please tell me John does not have access to firearms.

[carnie wilson]

WE NEED A GUN IN EVERY CITIZEN'S HAND. IF MALL SHOPPERS WOULD HAVE BEEN ARMED, THEY COULD HAVE STOPPED THIS BEFORE IT EVEN GOT STARTED. GUN CONTROL? WE NEED GUN DISTRIBUTION. WHY DO WE HAVE A CONCEAL AND CARRY LAW IF NO ONE WILL CARRY A GUN?

[The Zipper]

Was headed to the Sprint store at 4:05 pm with one of my kids. Got into the Mall parking lot near the target store. We knew something was up because EVERY SINGLE entrance to the Mall had police cars blocking anyone from leaving. There were 3 huge firetrucks, 3 ambulances and a minimum of 40 police cars at the seen. My kid asked me what happened and I said I guessed there was a shooting. never seen so many cops. we got out of car and started to try and walkin when a cop came over and said forget about shopping today, that there had been a "rampage". Her words. Pretty crazy seen really.

[Ted Nugent]

Dear Carnie Wilson,
Do you honestly think armed mall shoppers would have been able to stop this before it started? Did you even think about what you were saying? I'm sure armed people would have stopped this crazy man from shooting two unsuspecting people in cars next to his.

As for your preposterous statement that we need gun distribution, did you think through the consequences of such a plan? Have you ever seen the fallout from a big brawl? It becomes utter chaos, with people just swinging wildly hoping to connect with someone else. This is exactly what would result from everyone being armed. A shoots the "shooter" and B mistakenly thinks A is the "shooter" and shoots A. Meanwhile C thinks B is the "shooter" and shoots him, and so one. Very similar to a brawl.

Think before you speak.

[Don Imus]

Carnie,

Trust me, think before you speak. You sound like an idiot.

Sincerley,
Don Imus

[Brian Wilson]

Carnie! people think I'm a mess from all of my drug use and psychosis. When you say such stupid things they think that you may have gotten some bad genes from me.

[KC Cop]

How about stop blaming gun control, military service and school punishment and start controlling one thing that is lacking in the majority of American families: Parents putting more time, effort and discipline into their children! If this does not happen, then all the forementioned topics do not really matter. PARENTS GET CONTROL, AND YOU CONTROL THE FUTURE!

This settles it. I'm getting a concealed carry permit. Hats off to the KCMO and Leawood cops who ran right in the mall and took the guy out before he could kill more people. Looks like they learned what not to do from the moron cops at Columbine who stood around in the parking lot while the killers racked up a bigger body count.

[The Zipper]

Look idiot! You can't just get a conceal gun to carry because you're fed up. Thank God we don't have to give guns to any dipshite that wants one. If I knew that everyone at the Mall was csrrying one I'd make sure to do all my shopping online.

[BS Steve]

CB I just heard it when they was inveiwing a lady she had mentioned it but they havnt put much emphasis on it by any news media.....

[Not So Ole Feller]

Thank you KC Cop!! You hit the nail on the head!!!

[BS Steve]

"Look idiot! You can't just get a conceal gun to carry because you're fed up. "

Well Zip hate to tell ya this but if that guy/gal that said they was gonna get a conceal carry they can....If they pass all the B/G checks and tests and pay their 100 bucks....Lol Being fed up is just excuse to do all that is all......

[BS Steve]

KC Cop,

Age has nothing to do with it obviously this guy was in his 50s.....

[KC Cop]

The majority of crime is being committed by individuals between the ages of 13 and 19 years old. Crime will never stop, and this obviously was an incident that involved an older man, who had major problems! I work in the area of Ward Parkway mall, and I am thankful for having not had to work today! On the otherside I am upset that I was not there to help out my fellow officers, and protect the citizens who were in that mall today. I made a commitment to serving this city, all I am asking is that parents; ALL PARENTS TAKE UP THE SAME COMMITMENT AND SERVE THEIR CHILDREN. As a soceity we are failing to do this. I know because I see the repercussions first hand!

[mike]

There is no point in trying to understand this. This has nothing to do with kids and education and bringing back traditional values or whatever that is supposed to mean.

It also certainly provides no proof that religion should be taught anywhere. We should actually all be pretty thankful that things didn't turn out worse. Response time was good, and casualties probably kept minimal because of it. This is the beginning of sweeps month and random violence does really well because we consume more stories trying to make sense of it. We won't.

Sadly, I'd bet that statistically you are more likely to be killed by police officers breaking down your door in a botched paramilitary drug raid in this city than in a random shooting spree by a deranged individual at a mall.

[BS Steve]

Lol mike you had to do it huh??

I honestly see alot more violent crimes commited by people in older age ranges than you described KC Cop.......Crime overall mabe commited by teens but not if you just check the violent ones.....

[blondie2hot7]

all I am asking is that parents; ALL PARENTS TAKE UP THE SAME COMMITMENT AND SERVE THEIR CHILDREN."----KcCop

I will agree with that comment.. There are too many teens, and young adults that have no, or have had no parental guidance. That has a lot to do with moms and dads working, sometimes 2 jobs each so they can give their kids all those extras they would not be able to afford otherwise.

What some parents don't understand is, kids would rather have "mom and dad" give them more attention, more of "their" time. They are reaching out for atttention, and sometimes crime is what they turn to for that atttention, they don't realize the long term effects this is going to have on their life, like--prison time, put into foster care etc.

The guy in this story, who knows what his upbringing or background was? It's hard to tell.. We do know that he was psycho enough to go to a mall and start randomly(?) shooting at people, and there may be underlying reasons (no excuse) as to why he did that. Thank God the police stopped him, there probably would have been many more deaths.

[blondie2hot7]

I honestly see alot more violent crimes commited by people in older age ranges than you described KC Cop----BS Steve

You are probably right about that. The "murder/suicides" I believe are comitted more by the "older" generation. Kids on the other hand, they are probably responsible for more murders per say, because we hear of them everyday.

For some reason, it seems rampages, murder-suicides seem to happen on Sundays. I don't know if theres a connection there or not. I read the news a lot, and I have found that most "violent" crimes involving more than one death, it seems Sunday is the day of choice.

[glad to be gone]

Unfortunately, I recently lived in that neighborhood for five years, and that "quiet blue-collar area" is total horseshit... it's a completly declining punk-ridden ghetto. Property owners, city leaders, and retailers would like you to THINK differently. Who are they kidding?... The lack of order and police protection is self-evident. To their credit, the police did a good job on this one, especially considering that the KCPD is grossly undermanned and underfunded.

[Marshall Dillon]

Forget concealed carry. What this country needs is to give every citizen with the proper training the right to carry a handgun IN PLAIN SIGHT. That way, if someone with lethal intent takes a bead on a victim he/she will know if that target (or potential victim standing to either side of him/her) is likely to shoot back and maybe, just maybe, decide to vent his/her wrath somewhere else.
Of course, there will always be those places of business that post the "NO WEAPONS" signs which really mean "Come on in, we've gathered up PLENTY of unarmed victims for you!"

[Frank]

Heck, I live in Omaha, I visit KC and I am familiar with the area, and I KNOW it's an area I don't want to be in (Bannister Mall area). We go to a famous pan-fried chicken house not far from there, and it gets a little bit scarier every time.

You will never EVER stop this kind of violence for two reasons:
1) We cannot build nor afford to run a 'prison' big enough to hold everyone that MIGHT 'snap'.
2) The ACLU will be sure that ALL whack-jobs have rights (get out of jail free cards).

[Frank]

GLAD TO BE GONE - no, everyone should have a concealed weapon, because If I am a nut job, and I'm out of my mind, and I see a gun on a person, I'm gonna shoot before you EVER have a chance to draw on me.
I think folks should be allowed to carry concealed weapons, why the hell not ?

[rumi]

This is not a rare story of violence. Set in an all american foo foo town of fluff, where nothing bad ever happens.This happened in our city, not a huge city but big enough.Since this guy was an older guy, a cry out to the parents to get control of their kids might at first seem inappropriate..but perhaps not..I think every parent should talk to their kids abo ut consequences of actions..and as always when shootings happen..the anti-gun control kooks come out of the woodwork ..idiots if more people had guns if would have made the polices job a hell of a lot tougher..might have even got some innocent person shot by the police..think about it..a police car pulls up and sees you shooting..they won't know if you are the gunman of a citizen shooting the gunman..they will just take you out..my hat is off to the police in this incident..they responded and did their jobs well..I wish the anti-gun people would just stop..this country is already armed to the teeth..gun control in this country is like instituing birth control in the third trimester of a pregnancy..this won't be the last time this kind of thing happens..as you can see what happens when you have a law enforcement force that is trained and capable of handling a situation..a few unfortunate souls lost their lives..but many deaths were avoided due to the quick response. More people , FAR more people will die form some idiot deciding to get behind of the wheel drunk , then will die from firearms in this country..unless a civil war breaks out, the odds of most people getting shot is very minimal.

[BS Steve]

rumi,

What is the difference of a off duty cop or plain clothed cop shooting at someone that is a nut job like this guy was????

Unless you are insinuating somthing....

I will stay with my chances and carry my guns....

[BS Steve]

Also you must think the cops are a bunch of untrained baffoons if you honestly think they are just gonna start shooting someone shooting at a nut jobs like this guy was......

[rumi]

Steve how would they know that you were not the gunman, if when they pull up and see you shooting at someone..they won`t be able to tell who the hell you are. they more then likely would know a plain clothes cop..as the plains clothes cop would follow protocol..I am beginning to think there are a lot of barney fife like cop wanna be`s out there. Do you just want to kill somebody in this life..I think some guys grew up watching to many Clint Eastwood movies.

[Tony]

It appears the shootings and killings are steadily becoming more common place. Sorry to say it, but it may get worse before it gets better. All it takes is one person or several people with some personal agenda, they don't need a reason or excuse to kill others. They just do it, while it made not make sense to most people, it certainly would for them. It brings attention to their cause. I would not be surprise if we begin to see suicide bombers. It's been proven with recent events if one is successful, others will attempt to copycat. I know it's a terrible thought, but at the same time a realistic one . The question is what are we going to do about it? It's up to all of us to take action. Words are empty and meanless if there is no action behind them. Because we are quickly starting to realize just how safe or unsafe we are here at home. It made be the "terrorists" are our own people. It can be someone in your family, a friend, a co worker, a neighbor, someone in the store, etc. They come in all shapes, sizes, and backgrounds. It's very difficult to identify a killer. Let's work on finding answers instead of muddling through the "Whys" or give the usual quick and easy answers when addressing such horrible acts.

[BS Steve]

What if I was an off duty cop???It is just a chance you take.... But from previous insights cops generally do not just open fire on people because they see a gun rumi "unless they are shot at first" of course......

[BS Steve]

rumi,

Nice try on the criticism and trying to make me or anyone else that is not a cop and is carrying a gun just wanting to be thrill seeker that is looking to get into a shoot out.....Not gonna work pal....Most of us do have common sence believe it or not....You making blanket statements like that are just stupidity on a subject you obviously have no clue about.....Go to a gun range somtime on a Saturday or a Sunday I gurrantee you will see full slots on the range also.....Its amazing all those armed people and I have yet to see a shoot out.....Hard to believe huh?????All those guns.....Explain that one with one of your blanket statements....Can ya????

[rumi]

you would be asked to immediately drop your firearm and if you didn't comply, instantly..you would be shot..and if a rookie is there..he may just shoot you anyway..Steve I understand your position..I have read many of your posts..you are a gun carrying advocate and you are also..lets say a big critic of the police..I enjoy much of what you say about some varied topics..I agree with you about the war and Bush..but I do not advocate that a lot of the populace gets armed..without the proper training and without rigid psycological evaluation..I srongly feel that a great deal of out society have no buisness carrying a gun..period...if you have been tested for the mental and emotional and you have been trained extensively oh what to do in crisis situations..you don't need a gun..just knowing how to shoot, is not an indication that someone should have one...I also feel that there is no need for some weapondry to be owned by individuals..like working models of machine guns, bazooka's and other advanced war armory..I was armorer in the military..I was expert in many of these weapons..and I know that you don't need them to go and shoot din din....I am not big on taking away someone's gun..but all you need for home protection is a pump shotgun..carrying hand guns should be left to law men or someone that has a genuine need to carry one..like a jewelery salesman..etc.

[BS Steve]

It is funny none of you anti-gun freaks ever mention all of the gun range shootings....Wonder why that is there is a ton of guns alot of people and a crap load of ammo.....Hmm I bet I know why.....BECAUSE this never happens in those places.....Think about it....

Taking guns away is not an answer.......

[Tony]

People tend to miss the real issues because they are too caught up in the gun talk.

[BS Steve]

Also what about all those gun shops getting robbed durring business hours????Doesnt happen does it????Wonder why that is?????Can you give me the answer????

Dont tell me there isnt any cash in gun shops either......If you think that is true go price a few guns.....

[Tony]

"Live by the gun, Die by the gun" bravo is the lingo of a true nut job. A lot of people just don't care if you love your gun or not.

[BS Steve]

Yea Tony I see you answered my question....How bout all those gun range shootings?????Why dont they happen they have all the ingrediants that you think are needed for a shoot out.....Guns,Ammo and alot of untrained people......Wonder why we are not hearing about them I mean they must be happening right????O yea I bet it is just all cops that go to gun ranges and gun shops right????Lmfao.....

[Tony]

I don't recall saying anything about a shootout or ingrediants for one, BS. I just believe your an overzealous individual who is obsessed with owning a gun. I can tell you there is a shooting range near my home and in fact hear the sound of gunfire daily from that location. Without the gun, what are you? It is said people who really believe they need a gun are scared. Are you that kind of person?

[rumi]

I am through with this topic..gun control done right works..check out what has happened in Australia since 1996..the year they implemented gun control..firearm deaths have been cut in half..and literally no incidents of any mass shootings..we are the leading nation in people killed by firearms..its a fact check it out...I have looked at the pro's and con's of this issue..and I am not saying total gun control...but we do need gun control of some type..nuff said..you will argue that a piss ant can eat a bale of hay steve..Im done with it..we disagree and thats that.

[BS Steve]

Yeop I would be done also.....Check mate.....

Both of you jumped all around that one without one straight answer........

Also Tony I am far from scared of anything including standing up for what I believe in....

"Without the gun, what are you'

Well if a nut case like this comes in and opens fire on innocent people "sheep"...I am just part of the herd....

With my gun however I become a responsible gun owner "sheepdog" that can help to protect the people "sheep" from a nut case like this.......

[Tony]

Steve's approach is a little over the top. It does not establish credibility to his opinion. Sort of like the indignation of a habitual liar unable to find a market for the truth. Give us something tangible and significant to explain your convictions.

[Tony]

Basically, your helpless without your gun Steve. Why use a gun as a crutch? So, if you happen to lose it, misplace it, run out of bullets, your more than likely dead, because you are too dependent on the gun to save your life..nice plan.

[Tony]

Guns are not the answer, Steve. There are other options, perhaps you should look into them before getting all worked up over your pro-gun ramblings.

[BS Steve]

Lol give it up Tony.....Answer my question......Bet you cant do it.....

Come on with all those guns and money in one place you have got to find an explanation as to why gun shops are not robbed and why they are not the target of maniacs coming in and shooting the place up.....

Come on you can do it....Your a natural gun grabber......I can tell.....

[Tony]

Gun shops get robbed all the time, thats a poor example on your part to back your position.

[Tony]

Am I understanding that you believe if a business or home has a gun, they dont get robbed, Steve?

[BS Steve]

Nmae one gun shop that has been robbed durring the day.......Yea I am calling you on it Tony.....

[Tony]

Steve, your being unrealistic. It doesn't matter if it's a gun shop, a donut shop, a place of business is going to get robbed by some gun welding fool if they feel brave enough in attempting to pull it off. There is no immunity by the type of business.

[BS Steve]

Ok Tony tell me when Crossfire "Independence" or Claycomo or even lakecity was robbed.....

Only one incident that I know of that has happened is Claycomo had a fruit that shot his G/F with a .25 auto in the parking lot.....But he didnt go in shooting the place up.....Wonder why????

[Tony]

Steve, I suggest you check nationally on such occurance to get a better understanding how often a gun shop is robbed. Now granted there are some incidents where an attempted robbery is stopped by someone armed in the gun shop, but it's not always the case. Why do you hold onto such disinformation?

[BS Steve]

Yea Tony your right....A robber is gonna pick a gun shop as his first choice to rob.....I mean the doughnut shop guy might throw doughnuts at him and run him off.....I have seen some pretty dangerous doghnuts in my life time that would strike fear into any man......

Lol.....Give it up already.....

[Tony]

Steve, why do you get worked up over someone elses opinion? You seem to live your life by some vague assumptions.

[BS Steve]

Tony you have all the answers show me those stats on all the gun shops getting robbed......Funny I never hear of them if they happen "all the time".......Now if you are saying the get broken into when they are closed....Maybe but I never hear of any getting robbed durring business hours....Also just a note on the robbed when they are closed that is rare aswell....

But anyhow I would like to see the stats on all those gun shops being robbed though....If you gottem...I mean you sound so sure I would think you would have that info.....

[Tony]

Who said it would be his first choice? Desperate people do desperate things. Maybe the donut shop guy has a gun, maybe not. I guess the robber would find out regardless if its a gun shop or donut shop. That is what you should be thinking.

[blondie2hot7]

think about it..a police car pulls up and sees you shooting..they won't know if you are the gunman of a citizen shooting the gunman..they will just take you out---rumi

I do have to agree with that. Afrer reading about a few shootings in different states. The police came up on a scene (in N.O. I believe) 2 officers down at an apt complex.

An 18 yr old man was giving aid to one of the officers, as was others trying to help the other officer.. The 18 yr old had a gun to his head by an officer, the man they were looking for was still at large, and they didn't know if this young man was/wasn't the shooter. You just never know what's going to happem in a situation like that, where there is a large crowd and a civillian was to pull a gun, the cops roll up? I don't know. I wouldn't want to be in that situation

[blondie2hot7]

Nice try on the criticism and trying to make me or anyone else that is not a cop and is carrying a gun just wanting to be thrill seeker that is looking to get into a shoot out..------BS Steve

I wouldn't necessarily say that. I do defend peoples right to carry, but, I can also see that it can have some downsides too. This whole gun issue is an argument waiting to happen. If people want to carry a firearm, and obtain a permit, I think they have that right.

I have just heard too many stories of shootings on Interstates due to roadrage, or shooting someone over a parking spot etc. I guess you just have to take your chances which ever road you go down (to carry or not to carry)

[BS Steve]

Tony there is only one problem with your assumption.....

"Maybe the donut shop guy has a gun, maybe not."

The robber knows the gun shop owner has a gun....Thus making it less attractive to rob.....No brainer......

[kw]

Tony, instead of suckling at the teat of the Brady Campaign, and consequently regurgitating anti-gun myths, hysterical lies, and paranoid delusions, you should consider cold, hard facts.

www.gunfacts.info

Regards,
kw

[BS Steve]

Look at banks for instance they have taken out the armed guards in the lobby and went to relieing on that magic button to save their asses from being robbed.....Wow guess what bank robberies are up...I hear about them almost daily now.....And whan they had guards "with guns" I rarely heard of a bank robbery.....Yes I am that old.....

[blondie2hot7]

It is said people who really believe they need a gun are scared. Are you that kind of person?--Tony

That's not true in all cases. As rumi said earlier, if you carry valuables on you, maybe your a jewelry dealer, or banker or whatever, you may have a job that requires more security than just door locks on your car..

[Tony]

Steve, having a gun doesn't give someone the right to kill another person. I think with your pro gun stance, you fail to understand the negative effects it has on society.

[kw]

btw, my thoughts on this event, and on gun control, are too long for a blog comment, so i'll just post a link.

http://www.kcpimp.com/category/guns/

Regards,
kw

[Tony]

Blonde, Many of us in this country feel the need to carry a gun to defend ourselves because we expect encounter with violent crime. Should we not look at different options instead of becoming part of the violence? Guns are not the answer.

[blondie2hot7]

Doesn't most bank security guards carry guns? The one I do business with does...

[Tony]

As I had posted earlier, it's difficult to identify a killer. How do we go about keeping the guns out of the wrong kind of people hands?

[BS Steve]

Steve, having a gun doesn't give someone the right to kill another person. I think with your pro gun stance, you fail to understand the negative effects it has on society.

Posted by: Tony | Monday, April 30, 2007 at 04:31 AM

Tell that that to a robber if you ever have the unpleasant experience of being in that situation Tony....And tell me the response you get from him..."if you survive that is".....

[kw]

Tony, I think you "you fail to understand the negative effects [gun control] has on society". Think back to 1776, and remember that this country was won with guns, founded with guns, secured with guns, and our constitution was drafted with numerous protections (not just 2A) built in to protect the people from the government and to keep the government in check. Just look at how our privacy, freedoms, and lifestyles have been severely degraded by the Patriot Act, Bush and Gonzales, Ashcroft, Giuliani, and even both political sides of congress.

[blondie2hot7]

Blonde, Many of us in this country feel the need to carry a gun to defend ourselves because we expect encounter with violent crime. Should we not look at different options instead of becoming part of the violence? Guns are not the answer.---Tony

I would say, Yes. I agree with you and whoever else said there are definitely some people out there that should not carry guns. I don't think a "mental evaluation" is a requirement to obtain a gun, nor a permit. We need to have other options..

[Tony]

I think it's a reflection on society as a whole,, it's easier now to just blow someone away with a gun, then to deal with them.

[Tony]

KW, how does history have anything to do with how reckless and irresponible use of firearms in this country now in present times?

[BS Steve]

blondie the banks with security guards is getting to be a thing of the past......The ones with them get robbed or even have the chance of being robbed less than banks that do not.....Look at BOA for example ever wonder why they seem to get robbed alot???For one there is alot of them and for another none of them have armed security.....

[blondie2hot7]

As I had posted earlier, it's difficult to identify a killer. How do we go about keeping the guns out of the wrong kind of people hands?---Tony

There is no answer to that. The gang memembers have been said to have more powerful and better guns then our own officers have.

As far as identifying a killer/criminal, if you have a situation like yesterday, that would have been a toss up if everyone had been pulling guns, there may have been more deaths. Police officers themselves have shot other officers in cases like this. Tensions and nerves....................
Glad I'm not a cop

[Tony]

Are you saying, it's a given right by our forefathers to kill others? That was then, but it doesn't apply to current times.

[blondie2hot7]

blondie the banks with security guards is getting to be a thing of the past..----BS Steve

That's true. It usually depends on the location of the bank. The ones that are higher risk. But, you notice the banks that have been robbed here lately aren't in the "bad part" of town, per say.

[BS Steve]

Tony do you think you could have dealt with Cho at the VT school?????

[BS Steve]

Tony Take A Look

Why would a cop teach a class like this????

[blondie2hot7]

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed"

[Tony]

"Our beloved constitution", doesn't give anyone the right act irresponsible with a gun. I believe if a gun is used as a protective measure for certain situations such if a life is in danger, but I dont agree to just anyone having a gun.

[kw]

American history has everything to do with guns, and if you look at gun stats since the 1700s, you'll see that guns are generally used in a more responsible fashion now than ever. Again, you need to actually read the gun facts.

[Tony]

This is not "1776" it was a completely different world than what it is today.

[BS Steve]

." I believe if a gun is used as a protective measure for certain situations such if a life is in danger, but I dont agree to just anyone having a gun."

Not just anyone does have a gun or the right to have one......Get your facts on buying them....Also get the facts on getting a lisence to carry them.....I gave you a link......

[blondie2hot7]

"Our beloved constitution", doesn't give anyone the right act irresponsible with a gun. I believe if a gun is used as a protective measure for certain situations such if a life is in danger, but I dont agree to just anyone having a gun.-----Tony

I agree with you Tony.. I was just pointing out it's our constitutional right to bear arms..
Guns can get in the wrong hands, as well as other deadly objects. Cars can be deadly in the wrong hands.This is a touchy subject for sure

[blondie2hot7]

BS Steve: The majority of people carrying don't have a license or permit, thats what is scarry...

But whether they do or not, they kill with them just the same

[Tony]

KW, I believe I have all the facts I need by the senseless murders that keep occuring. How do you explain why does the shootings keep occuring?

[BS Steve]

blondie,

I would much rather some into contact with someone with a lisence than not......Even if both are just a dangerous I would trust the one actually following the law......

[blondie2hot7]

Tony: Because guns are getting into the wrong hands, period

[Tony]

I'm very much aware of what the our constitution states, but now with the pro gun folks and their personal agendas, it kind of makes the constitution out to be a joke. How is it any different than the militant groups who reside in the country?

[kw]

Tony said, "This is not "1776" it was a completely different world than what it is today."

Exactly my point, Tony! Back then, we just had the British and relatively low crime rates to deal with. Today, we have violent criminals, gangs, serial killers, rapists, terrorists and their frequent attacks .... and with the rapid erosion of our freedoms and right to privacy, our government too.

[blondie2hot7]

I would much rather some into contact with someone with a lisence than not......Even if both are just a dangerous I would trust the one actually following the law......---BS Steve

Thats my point. I don't think all the random murders(?) happening here lately, I'll bet they didn't have permits......

[blondie2hot7]

and with the rapid erosion of our freedoms and right to privacy, our government too.---kw

Amen!! Just ask Ed and Elaine Brown about that!

[Tony]

A right to bear arms, is a great idea in itself especially when at the time, it was an uncivilized world. Where order wasn't kept by someone with a badge and gun. Are we becoming a society like that once again?

[kw]

Tony said, "KW, I believe I have all the facts I need by the senseless murders that keep occuring. How do you explain why does the shootings keep occuring?"

Well, if you have all of the facts Tony, can you tell me how many times guns have prevented crime vs been used to commit a crime? Did you know that police officers in NC are more likely to commit crimes than CCW holders? Did you know that the crime has decreased substantially in almost every state where CCW is an option. And crime in places like NY, CA, and NJ is increasing.

[blondie2hot7]

Tony: The news says it is coming to that again. But, I will stick with my beliefs., I choose not to carry a firearm and if I am in a situation that calls for a firearm (in public) I hope an officer is nearby.,

I do have a firearm at my house, but that is due in part to the rise in robberies and crime going up in general..

[Tony]

KW, we didn't just have the British to deal with, less, you forget about the Native Americans and criminal elements roaming the land, the raping, killings, just wasn't done by the British.

[BS Steve]

"I'm very much aware of what the our constitution states, but now with the pro gun folks and their personal agendas, it kind of makes the constitution out to be a joke."

O yea Tony what is the pro-gun owners agenda?????Glad you think that because we are trying to protect ourselves legally and keep our rights as a joke.....

The real joke is people like you trying to grab everyones guns...And erase our "right to bear arms".....

Whether you like it or not Tony illegal guns are always going to be in this country......We cant even keep people or drugs form crossing our borders what makes you think we can stop the gun trafficing???

[Tony]

I just think there are pros and cons to the gun debate, a lot of what "if" scenarios being played out. The biggest concern in my opinion, and again, it's just my opinion, is the guns getting into the wrong hands of someone intent on doing harm to others.

[blondie2hot7]

BS Steve: I'm all for being able to have them at your home, now carrying them out in public, that I have a problem with.

[kw]

yes, Tony, i think we are becoming a society where order must be kept by people without badges. you can't expect a cop to be there every time somebody is about to get shot, or robbed, or raped. in fact, cops legally do not even have an obligation to protect you. that is *legally* not their job. their job these days is to collect evidence at crime scenes, write speeding tickets, and respond to burglary alarms and domestic disturbance calls.

[blondie2hot7]

Tony: Because guns are getting into the wrong hands, period

Posted by: blondie2hot7 | Monday, April 30, 2007 at 04:55 AM

[Tony]

Steve, two wrongs don't make a right. Your just living scared and thats basically your excuse for having a gun, you admitted your too dependant on your gun to save you from a bad situation.

[blondie2hot7]

in fact, cops legally do not even have an obligation to protect you. that is *legally* not their job.---kw

Yes it is their obligation, when they are on duty

[Tony]

Definitely, society here will be a warzone soon. With those pro gunners running around thinking they are some kind of heros. You dont seem to grasp, your not making the situation better, you make it worst. Your not the solution, but become part of the problem.

[blondie2hot7]

The job of a policeman is one of the most prestigious in the world. In Uttaranchal the Police forces are going to overcome the initial difficulties and develop fast. It is especially remarkable to those people who visit Uttar Pradesh with an interval of a year or two. More efficient training has had great impact on the development of the police. If you feel that you care about the worries and safety of your fellow citizens, the work of a policeman can definitely be satisfying to you. A trained and successful policeman is well-known and honored in town and village."

[blondie2hot7]

Tony---BS Steve

Do you agree or disagree that it IS a police officers obligation/duty to protect us as citizens?

Protect and Serve

[Tony]

By law, they are not required to Blonde.

[blondie2hot7]

Tony: Well, you know what I'm saying. If someone was shooting at me, and an officer is nearby, I have no gun, he does, he's going to save my behind!!

[Tony]

Depends on the person. I've seen officers run from trouble, instead of going after the bad guy.

[blondie2hot7]

Depends on the person. I've seen officers run from trouble, instead of going after the bad guy.-----Tony

Lets say it's "superman" now, will he protect me? ha ha!!

I get it.. He's not going to get canned if he stands by and lets someone shoot me, heck, who would tell on him?

[Tony]

Exactly, I recall one incident years ago in a local town where an officer had someone pulled over for a minor traffic infraction, and at the same time an arm robbery was occuring just up the street. The officer got the call, hopped his car sped up to robbery in progress and the robbers drove right pass him with their headlights out.

[Tony]

What about accidental shooting by people who have a gun and a permit to carry it? The VP shot someone.

[Tony]

What we need is "bullet control"..lets forget about the guns...If bullets cost 10 grand apiece, you know whoever gets shot had it coming.

[D]

Tony. I'm sorry to tell you that your phrase stolen from Chris Rock is not valid. He's a comedian and a good one, but still a comedian. Any machinist can make bullets easy.

A concealed gun could have stopped this maggot after he killed the woman in her house. Actually, she could have at least wounded him before he killed her.

More guns always equals less crime. Look at what happened in Texas and Florida after concealed/carry was approved in the mid-1990s. The violent crime dropped over night.

Imagine if somebody would have been licensed to carry at Columbine, they shoot those maggots and only they die. Imagine if a flight attendant and/or pilot had a concealed gun on 9/11. They kill those lunatics, and that never happens. Imagine if someone had a concealed gun at Virginia Tech. They kill that loser and that doesn't happen.

We live in a country of guns folks. For those of you who want to get guns off the street-try to get tires off the road, too. It's as practical.

Arm the good guys, because lunatics will kill no matter what.

More guns means less crime. ALWAYS!!!

[blondie2hot7]

Arm the good guys, because lunatics will kill no matter what.
More guns means less crime. ALWAYS!!!---D

If it were only that easy. Who gets to choose who's nuts and whos not? Someone may be nuts, and seem perfectly normal........

I think I just opened the door on that one.

[Old Crank]

Tony,
You are really living in loberal fantasy land.

You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

Why don't we start surrendering our rights with the first amendment? Lets just go right down the list until we are the utopian commune of tree huggers that the libs have convinced you can exist?

An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject.

Sorry Tony. More feel good laws are not going to fix things. You will NEVER get the gun control solution you are whining for...it just will not happen.

[blondie2hot7]

An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject.

Posted by: Old Crank | Monday, April 30, 2007 at 06:58 AM

That or:
An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a "target"

[o-line]

A gun in every person's hand? How is a crossfire gun battle in the middle of the mall any safer? How many innocent bystanders are killed by stray bullets on the street alone.

Two guns don't make a right.

[June]

I have a concealed carry permit and the amount of training they require to be able to carry is a joke! I believe that there should be more training and yes then more citizens to carry and we need to take things into our own hands. Stop these psychos and help out the local police dept.

[carnie wilson]

tony obvioulsy doesn't know what he's talking about. just because an argument sounds good doesn't make it true.

Are you a lawyer for the labor dept? i don't think so. it is a police officer's legal obligation to protect. if they are in a position where they could have stopped a crime and didn't (while on duty), then they'll face consequences. Not only related to their jobs, but can be sued in court. People can sue a cop for anything, really.

Also, I like the post about going to gunfacts.info for information about guns-- brought to you by the gun-makers of america.

[carnie wilson]

oh, and for the person wishing the person he killed to start the whole thing had had a gun to wound him:

he killed her to steal her guns. She wouldn't sell him her guns so he killed her for them.

[BF]

Hmmmmm, where did this guy get the gun? Oh yeah, from his first victim. Why oh why must everyone insist on carrying guns? They eventually fall into the wrong hands.

Wake up everyone. Until we get the guns off the street and out of everyone's homes, these kinds of things will just keep on happening. The only people who should have any guns are the police.

Yes, hunters should be allowed to have their guns, but why is it legal to own semi-automatic weapons that were made to do one thing - KILL.

[Gunny]

wow.... lottsa different opinions here. I agree with some - disagree with some. Way too much to digest and think about to come up with an articulate reply. I'll just say one thing, to reiterate:

Ladies and gentlement please understand, It's not about guns. If we continue to place the blame on guns, we are missing the real point and all of this violence persists... Peace!

Gunny out

im just glad the wack-job wasn't a better shot. it could have been worse. Kudos for the people that blew his brains out.

Thanks PO-POs!
:)

[Dr. English]

Dear Tony, Steve, Blondie, KW,

Escalation. Take a second to look back over your postings. As your tensions rose, you became careless in your postings. You let the heat of the moment prevail and lost your writing edge. You didn't care to take the time to proofread, you just shot out your opinion (pardon the pun) without thinking. Steve, you seem to think you would be cool-headed and able to take out a shooter if you were able to carry a gun. However, your quick rise to careless posting makes me think otherwise.

[3 dot guy...]

...taking away firearms from law-abiding citizens will in no way take them out of the hands of criminals.

...illegal guns are entirely too easy to get a hold of.

I prefer a society that allows us to remain on even footing AND gives me another tool to protect those I love from the very rare situation of someone trying to hurt them...

All this talk about gun death/violence is rather amusing...

How many people died in auto accidents last year?

Are we going to start taking away cars? They seem to be much more lethal...

People get shot everyday (again, far less than those who die in auto accidents). Just because this happened in our city, doesn't make it "special". To you individually, sure it does, but in the grand scheme of things. Nope...

Even with these latest shootings, you still have a better chance of being struck by lightning than be a victim of gun violence...

You live in one of the safest countries there is...don't let the media freak you out and run your life...

[Nick]

"Steve, you seem to think you would be cool-headed and able to take out a shooter if you were able to carry a gun. However, your quick rise to careless posting makes me think otherwise." - Dr English

Dear Dr. English,

Surely, you jest.

[Dr. English]

Surely, I do.