Do prisoners have a civil right to sleep in a bed?

In Los Angeles, a federal judge has ruled that county jailers were wrong to force prisoners to sleep on the floor because of overcrowding. The judge said the prisoners' right to protection from cruel and unusual punishment was violated, the AP reports.

Comments

[Nick]

Smells like a Clinton mole.

[kay]

Just read another story on here about a 91 year old WWII vet who was jailed for threatening his nurse and refusing to obey police officers. He was jailed for 8 days before being bailed out by a jailer. Maybe justice would have been better served had we forced him to sleep on the floor due to overcrowding.
Where has all the common sense gone in this country?
We make "criminals" of citizens for things that should be dealt with outside the criminal justice system, and then everyone claims their isn't enough money to get the real criminals (murders, rapists, etc.) off the streets. Wake up America. Take our country back from these petty bureaucrats and sleazy politicians.

[JDog]

Ah ha,
California...and this surprises us?
Heck they use taxpayers money to provide public schooling to illegal immigrants...as order by the courts!
California court of appeals is the most "overturned" court in the land.

[Mickey Mouse]

Pahleeez! Cutting off your balls when you were only caught breaking into a car is cruel and unusual punishment. So take your pick, your balls or the floor! Better yet, why don't they drop to their balls and clean the floor. They made their bed, now lie on it, even if it is the floor!

[Mickey Mouse]

Pahleeez! Cutting off your balls when you were only caught breaking into a car is cruel and unusual punishment. So take your pick, your balls or the floor! Better yet, why don't they drop to their balls and clean the floor. They made their bed, now lie on it, even if it is the floor!

[Bohica]

If you can't sleep on the floor, don't do the crime.

But like Kay said... some things that people get jailed for are stupid. How dare they put a 91 year old WWII vet in jail for not wanting to take medicine!!!

[Scott]

Mickey Mouse ... I take it you have never met or known someone who has been accused of something they did not do. I spend a lot of time at Jackson County Jail visiting clients and alot of them just plain dont deserve to be there. Like it or not these people will be coming back to society, and maybe it makes sense to treat them as human beings while they are in there so they act like it when they come out.

[KAB]

Who gives a rats' a$$ whether or not criminals have to sleep on the floor? They already expressed their opinions regarding others' rights when they committed their crimes. Personally, I think we should accord each prisoner with the same standard of rights he or she accorded their victims.

If, in the commission of his or her crime, someone else's rights were ignored or set aside, then by that same standard the criminal's rights should be accorded. If, during the course of a robbery, the victim was terrorized or beaten, then obviously the scumbag who committed the crime didn't give a da*m about the victim's rights. Therefore, why should we give a da*m about that criminal's rights? We would simply and justly be applying their own standards against them.

Enough of this silly, sweet sentiment about how inconvenient or how emotionally disturbing or, even, if it is cruel or unusual.

Just what in the world do we mean by "cruel and unusual," anyway? What does that mean? So much of the rhetoric I have seen in recent years seems to flow in the direction that if we do anything less than furnish spacious accomodations with all the luxuries (cable tv, games, education, recreation, free medical care, etc.) that most of us have to work hard for and make financial decisions or sacrifices for, then we are subjecting the criminals to cruel and unusual punishment. Horse s**t! When they live better than you or I, it isn't cruel or unusual.

Speaking of punishment, isn't that - really - what they are there for? They are not repaying their debt to society, for they are not "making up" for their crimes, and it costs you and me more dollars to house and feed them than it costs the average taxpayer to live. According to the published recidivism rates, our prisons and jails are not at all effective at rehabilitating criminals, either. They get out, and go out, and committ more crimes until they return back "home" to jail. So we cannot consider the function of prisons and jails as rehabilitation institutes. Plain and simply, prisons and jails serve a two-fold purpose. First, they are to take criminals off of the streets and, at least for a while, protect society from their depredations. Secondly, prisons and jails are there to punish criminals for their behavior. Just like Beretta used to say (before he murdered his wife) - "You do the crime, you do the time." There has to be consequences for detrimental behavior. Therefore, the "punishment" aspect of "cruel and unusual punishment" is necessary to society.

Who defines cruel? What constitutes cruel? The deprivation of a criminal's rights? Scroll back above and reread. Making the criminal sleep on the floor? Pah!!! Let him or her ponder their crime from a position of hardship rather than resting comfortably in a warm, well cushioned bed. And take away the TVs and all the rest of the benefits. They do not deserve them. If they wish a few luxuries to soften their cushy punishment, make them earn them. Really earn them. Put them back out on the chain gangs clearing weeds and beautifying the roadways. Put them to work cleaning out sewers and mowing parkways and maintaining city parks. Take them out to blighted, infested, trash covered inner city abandonned homes and lots, and make them clean them up. THAT would be repaying society. THEN I might be persuaded to indulge these leaches on our society a bit more leniently.

And for Pete's sake, don't bore me with extraneous, isolated examples of 91 year old men who are wrongfully incarcerated and forced to sleep on the floor. If this happens, drag whatever twenty-something career criminal wanna-be out of the bed and give it to the oldster. Come on! Common sense hre, please.

[babyjane]

A lot of the people who are jailed in the local jail have merely been arrested and not even found guilty yet. They may never even be charged or they may be found innocent if they are and are being treated like this. Shameful.

[Do Not Delete]

"Who gives a rats' a$$ whether or not criminals have to sleep on the floor?"

You're not a criminal until you're convicted of something. Most people in county haven't been convicted of anything.

Using your standards, I accuse you of assault. You should now be arrested, and you deserve nothing better than to sleep on a hard concrete floor from now on.

Gee, it's not as attractive when you turn it around, is it?

[Scott]

This story is about treatment in jail, not prison. Very few people in jail have been found guilty of anything and should be treated as innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
KAB - perhaps you think that treating people like animals in prison is a good idea... you want to talk about what the recidivism rate would be under your system? You are talking about people who had the deck stacked against them in our criminal justice system. Most jurors think that if you were arrested by the police you must have done it, and the frank truth is that we do not treat people as innocent until proven guilty. It is much worse if you are accused of something after you serve your time. All of a sudden you can't testify without bringing up your priors and if you take something to trial, you sentence is enhanced so you plead guilty and take the hit rather than go to trial and try to prove yourself guilty. You think that does not affect the recidivism rate that you were talking about? You think that way of treating people does not make prisoners feel more isolated and outcast? You think they are not going to come out more bitter than when they came in? You think they are going to WANT to join society that treated them that way when they can't get a job because they have been to prison? The answer is not locking up more people and treating them like crap. The answer is catching them when they are young and giving them a chance to straighten themselves out. I have clients that get a second chance by getting a dismissal and going to job corps, or the military, or other places that they can get training and a chance to succeed away from the bad influences they grew up in. Maybe we should just lock them up though and treat them like animals... then you could feel happy about the tax dollars you spend taking care of them... so much better than giving people a chance to come out and make something of themselves.

[?]

Ok, I only read a few comments but apparently you all haven't been to jail. Most of the people in jail are there for bullshit petty reasons. People seem to forget that the people locked up are humans too, not some animal. Jail is cruel and unusual punishment. It's for rapists and serial killers. They have been saying for years you come out worse than you went in. There needs to be an inspection of all jails and prisons. Toilets within inches of your head while your sleeping? Ok, is there a health inspector reading these cuz I'm pretty sure that's not sanitary. They don't give you toilet paper so you have to ask and they bring it when they feel like bringing it. So, when people can't wait any more they go to the bathroom without using toilet paper. So now people are walking around jail in "paper" jail suits that soaks up all the pee you couldn't do anything about with no paper and your sitting on the benches and floors that all the other inmates are sleeping on, including you! THAT'S FUCKING DISCUSTING!!! And that's just a little razzle dazzle, it's way deeper than that.

[kevin]

Let the scum bags sleep on the floor. Bread and butter for dinner. I'm sure it's more than they gave their victims!

[Joe S TheRagMan]

KAB - you've made me a fan!

Scott, babyjane... I'm sure you mean that with all of your hearts, but more often than not, if the person was as quality an individual as you're poorly attempting to lead us to believe, they wouldn't have ended up there in the first place. Wrong place/wrong time stuff happens, but the vast majority of the time, the person has been picked up for good reason.

[Joe S TheRagMan]

Hey ?. Sounds like your experience led you to determine that jail wasn't a good place. Well that's wonderful. Maybe everyone's experience should be as your's was. Hopefully, it'll deter you from breaking laws in the future.

Too bad it doesn't have the same effect on every jailed person.

[jack]

Boy, alot of people here don't believe in "Innocent until proven guilty." In fact, they sound like THEY are the judge, jury and executioner of anyone charged. And they find them GUILTY!

Too bad that "antique piece of paper" still gets in the way of incarcerating people for what they "might do" or even saying anything you all disagree with. Then you could lock up all the "wrong thinkers" and truly make America safe for the "good folks" such as yourselves!

[Newbie]

Gets down on hands and knees in front of Joe and places head on floor.....I am not worthy.....amen brother.

[Newbie]

Ever watch Cops? Listen to the excuses. The problem is that they ought to have these tapes play for every trial so jurors and judges can see the bull that is being fed to them. Maybe then we can empty our jails quicker so the wrong place/time peeps can sleep.

What bunch of morons. We made this problem and we keep making it worse because we want to be fair but the weasels keep finding ways around it. It's a vicious cycle that needs to be severed.

[Joe S TheRagMan]

Jack, Jack, Jack... My man, are you smoking something illegal? How naive are you? Were you wrongly incarcerated or was it your buddy that was only holding the stuff for a friend when the cops nabbed him? Man, oh man. The reason they incarcerate prior to court is to make sure you guys show up and don't skip court and town to go do the same stupid crap elsewhere, making us look like blundering idiots. If we are unsuccessful at trial, you get out and sue us for wrongful prosecution, etc.

By the way, thinking is conspiracy if you verbalize your thoughts and openly ponder a plan... snicker snicker

[unnamed assailant]

kab and joe the ragman you guys are not on a much higher moral level than the criminals you talk about. You are on the intellectual level of a crawfish.

The way we treat prisoners is an indication of how we operate as a society. I would hope that we would be above behaviour associated with the Dark Ages.

Like someone else stated most of the people in county have never been convicted of anything. They are awaiting trial and don't have the funds to bond out.

The violent ones (murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc.) I have no remorse about whatever happens to them, but if you would take a minute and look, most of the people in jail are in for small non-violent crimes. A lot of these crimes are victimless.

The USA has more people in jail per capita than any other country in the advanced world. And if you look harder at the individual states, Missouri is at the top of states that have more people in jail per capita.

Having people in jail is big business. The Fed gives the state 30k for each prisoner that ends up in the pen. An additional 70k for those that enter a prison drug program and another 30k when these guys go back into the general population.

Maybe take a drive up to St. Joe and check out the Dept. of Corrections employees all driving DOC vehicles (mostly new Dodge RAM trucks with Alpine CD players) for their own personal transportation.

[Scott]

People in jail should be given accomodations that reflect their status... as innocent people. As for the reference to COPS... I would love to have those tapes not to show the jury, but to show the judge at the suppression hearing for the cops egregious violations of civil rights. How many times on cops do you see them doing things by the book?

[Sasquach]

I had a buddy who accidently grabbed the wrong check book on his way out of the house one day (the account for the one he grabbed had been closed). 2 years later he gets pulled over for speeding and they pull up a warrant for a $35 check he wrote that day that the shop owner pressed charges for. He spent the next 9 hours in jail (w/in about an hour of being stuck there for the night). This old black guy in with him knew my buddy was going to be a short timer, so he asked him for the "toiletries" they gave him. My buddy gave them to him. 2 minutes later a big white guy with a shaved head comes over and tells him that consorting with the n----rs could be unhealthy for him in there. As it got to be toward lights out he saw people picking out where they were going to sleep (several of them on the floor too) while trying not to get in a fight for taking someone elses spot. Luckly another friend of ours made it there with the $160 it took to get him out (35 for the check, 25 for the bad check fee, 100 for the warrant).

That said, kab, jack, kevin, and all the other people like you better make sure that you have always made sure to never screw up, or look like someone else who screwed up, or have kids who were driving a car registered under your name when they screwed up. It doesn't even have to be something you realize or remember that you did (hell, it doesn't even have to have been you sometimes). The cops won't care about your excuses when you try to explain yourself; they aren't paid to care. Neither are the jailors. And don't try to cry foul either. It's the system you are advocating.

[Joe S TheRagMan]

Unnamed ASSailant - My morals are where they need to be. I've never been accused, charged, or even questioned about anything above a parking ticket. Ironically, it wasn't hard to keep out of trouble. I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, too.

Been there, but decided not to do that. More than a few of my former hood's bullies, thugs, druggies, and gang bangers are now incarcerated. But with renewed vigor, thanks to your posts, I am now certain that they are all innocent and wrongly accused/convicted. Maybe you guys should send your information to them so you can help exonerate them. We'll call it "Project In a Sense" which means "in a sense, YOU think they might be in there for nothing," but then again, probably not.

I think we should have harsher punishment for the crimes you're speaking of, Jack. How many dumba$$ Americans want to smuggle dope into Turkey? See "Midnight Express." How many people want to lose their hands for stealing or their tongues for various "crimes." Instead of having an appeals system, make the penalty for capital murder to be death within 12 hours of conviction. See how quickly Mr. Smug-tough-guy is shaken when the jury says "Guilty."

Too many people in prison like it there. Many criminals don't fear prison like they should. From the sounds of earlier posts, County lock-up is worse than prison.

Sasquach - How many times do you think that company or bank tried to contact your buddy or send him notice of the screw-up in order to get their money? Phone numbers change, addresses do, too, but addresses are easily forwarded. And since the bank was involved, I'm sure they may have been able to learn his whereabouts some other way, as well. I bet they tried a few times.

I've got checks from two closed accounts that I've come across recently. However, I've never had any fear of goofing them up like your friend's "accident." Perhaps if your friend was a little more responsible, he wouldn't have committed his accident. LOL Sounds like he got out of it pretty easily, so it turned out to be a lesson learned. It was no one's fault but his own that he was in there.

[Susie]

I have an idea -- let's build a 5-star hotel next to the jail for the inmates who haven't been convicted yet.

[Sasquach]

Joe,

Not once did anyone try to contact him. He'd been living at the same address with the same phone # for 5 years, much further back than this incident occured. Didn't matter to the cops.

Heck, I had to go pick up some records at the KCMO courthouse once and found out they had two different names listed in their system for my SSN. Apperently the other person in thier system with my SSN had some of assult and theft charges in KC. I showed them my SS card and asked them to fix it and the woman told me she didn't have the authority. I asked to speak to the supervisor, who told me that they could not remove the number from the other persons record without a correct number to replace it with. When I complained that I didn't want my social associated with some criminal, she told me there was noting she could do for me and called the next person in line. When I said I wasn't leaving until someone fixed it, she said she would have me arrested if I stayed. When I asked on what charges, she said disturbing the peace and interfereing with the duty of a city employee. Thank god I don't live in the KC area anymore so that they don't show up at my house one day thinking that maybe my name is just an alias or some crap for this other guy.

While a lot of people are in jail justifiably, not everyone is. I'm not saying that jails need to be Hilton hotels, but they don't need to be the Hanoi Hilton either. Jail is plenty bad (especially when you haven't even been sentenced yet), and giving inmates beds isn't giving them much either, especially when you consider that bubba, the skinhead sodomite, might not be letting you sleep in it anyway.

[unnamed assailant]

Joe you sound like the Iraqi information minister only half as bright. You've never been to jail?...Whoop-di-f@#king-do. Me neither. So what?

You obviously see yourself as the almight rightous one. Hope one of your loved ones ends up in trouble and has a tough guy like you deciding their fate.

Your idea of cutting off hands...beauty, straight out of 550BC. People like you and your draconian mentality are frightening.

[Adam]

If you allow the PEOPLE (it doesn't matter what they did or didn't do, they're people) to be treated like that, and you advocate it, then you are exactly the same as those people you complain didn't care about others' rights. If not caring about everyone's rights is what you want, then you drag our society down with the ones that actually don't care how anyone is treated. It doesn't matter what that person in jail did, treating them in a humane manner is part of what makes our country, The USA, what it is today.