6 dead, 2 injured in Kirkwood City Hall shooting

UPDATED, Friday afternoon: Thornton's wife is a principal in Florida; story doesn't mention if they were separated. Jason and Laura have an updated story from Kirkwood, including this from Thornton's brother:

Surrounded by a crush of reporters, Gerald Thornton, two years Charles’ senior and one of nine siblings, verged on obstinate in his defense of his brother’s actions.

When asked if he felt for his brother’s victims, Thornton said: “No one wants to see loss of life over issues that should’ve been solved. We have educated people over there and they should’ve been able to see the things they were doing should’ve came to an end sooner.”

More blogger reaction here, here, here and this one from a former colleague of Connie Karr, a councilwoman who was killed.

UPDATED, later Friday morning: Janet McNichols, a P-D writer at the meeting, talks about the shooting on this video. Here's CNN's take, along with a comment from Thornton's brother:

"The only way that I can put it in a context that you might understand is that my brother went to war tonight with the people that were of the government that was putting torment and strife into his life," Thornton told KMOV.

"And he had spoke on it as best he could in the courts, and they denied him all access to the rights of protection, and therefore he took it upon himself to go to war and end the issue."

Oh, and this from Thornton's mom, via the New York Times:

She said she never suspected that her son would be violent but described the events as “an act of God, just like a storm or a tornado.”

Riiiight, just like an act of God.

Here's a video report from NBC with on-the-ground reporting provided by KSDK.

UPDATED, Friday morning: The Star's Jason Noble is on the scene in Kirkwood. Mike Rice has a story noting the shooter, Thornton, had something like 100 misdemeanor convictions, most of them for housing-code violations.

And for any former Kirksville or Truman State University people in the audience, Charles Thornton is a former track star there, a Hall of Famer no less. (One of my relatives remembers meeting him once.) From KTVO:

Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton was a track standout at then Northeast Missouri State University in the late 70's.  School records for indoor and outdoor high jump set by Thornton in 1979 still stand.

UPDATED: Here's more about Thornton and his battles with the city council. Basically, he acted up so badly that he got arrested for disorderly conduct during their meetings. That led to a court battle. And now this. Here's a link to the City of Kirkwood's web presence. And a good take from a St. Louis blogger, Life As I Know It.

This one's hard to swallow, folks. Kirkwood isn't a violent place; it's the quintessential American suburb. The gunman apparently had nursed several grudges against the city government for years.

I have heard it said before that if anger festers in a person long enough it will eventually express itself violently. Such is the case here. Five innocent citizens woke up this morning not knowing this was their last day on Earth.

The P-D has a list of the long, sad history of courthouse/city hall shootings.

UPDATED: True Crime Weblog has a post about Thornton here. A heartbreaking post here from "From The Rear View Mirror, a Kirkwood native:

My heart is broken. I know those people. All of them.

Two policemen, three city council members and maybe the mayor.

5 dead in Kirkwood.

Please say it isn't so.

What's happening to us?

As several people have noted, Kirkwood might sound familiar because that's where Michael Devlin kept those two boys captive. Powerful essay here from a St. Louis-area teacher whose fiance is a policeman. From "Brushes With Adulthood" ...

We live in a society that glorifies violence–I think I can claim that as fact. We are society that results to violence, that chants revenge, and in the wake of this event, my heart aches for that society that cannot find a way to resolve a situation without violence.

We can blame this on mental instability. We can blame it on the harassment. We can blame it on the guns, the video games, the economy, race– but the bottom line is blame and scapegoats solve no more than the guns do.

We can say these murders were senseless, but as Kingsolver asserts, “‘Senseless’ sounds like ‘without cause,’ and it requires no action, so that after an appropriate interval of dismayed handwringing, we can go back to business as usual.”

How can we go back to business as usual? How can we not demand change? How can we not begin to determine WHY.

PREVIOUSLY: Just monstrous. Two of the dead are police officers, one is councilwoman. (Death count includes the jackass responsible for all this.) Two others injured, including a reporter covering the meeting. Will have more soon.

Police say the shooter was a man named Charles Lee Thornton, sort of a town crank, the Post-Dispatch reports.

Thornton was not a stranger to the council, where he was often a contentious presence. In May 2006, he was handcuffed and pulled from a meeting. He was charged with disorderly conduct and released.

McNichols said he often aimed his ire at the mayor and at Yost.

Late last month, a federal judge in St. Louis dismissed a lawsuit in which Thornton, representing himself, claimed Kirkwood officials violated his free speech rights by prohibiting him from speaking out at meetings.

Top Image: AP Photo/St. Louis Post-Dispatch, J.B. Forbes, Bottom Image: (AP Photo/Post-Dispatch, Robert Cohen)

Comments

[KC Cicero]

No doubt Mr. Nutty-as-a-fruitcake had no difficulty geting a gun to use. Wouldn't we all be safer if nuts like this were limited to hurling insults instead of bullets?

[KIRKWOOD VICTIMS]

GET A CLUE EVERYONE! In two years the Kirkwood Police have driven normal everyday people to shoot cops!!! Hellooooo!

I think there is a strong message that should be heard here, the police in small municipalities should act accordingly, with COMPASSION and integrity! They should have an internal affairs department that does something when the police officers act out of line, and have a higher division deciding over their actions.

The police in areas of St Louis located in small municipalities conduct themselves in a manner that is scandalous! Police in townships like Bella Villa, Shrewsbury, Kirkwood, Creve Coeur, Saint George.....write tickets and treat the people on the streets in an extremely antagonistic and harassing manner.

I was entering Bella Villa traffic court one evening where an elderly woman in her 80's was taken by surprise while a younger police officer with a disfigured face screamed at her in military fashion "MOVE! MOVE! MOVE! MOVE!" threatening to throw her in jail, berating her into tears, gasping for her breath and eventually a heart attack where she had to be taken away in an ambulance as the officer looked on and was laughing....all because she was parked in the wrong parking spot and was trying to apologize as she was moving. I tried reporting him a couple days later and THERE WAS NO ONE TO REPORT IT TO, NOTHING COULD BE DONE! No one has authority over what these small precincts do to people.

This is a very bad government when someone has the authority to do anything they want to you, even if its unjust.

Kirkwood police give parking tickets in excess of $50 each to some people on the same car, sometimes 5 of these in a matter of hours, while laughing at you for it and telling you "Om gonna get you whenever I can!" with gleam in their eyes like they really did something to laugh about! Who can afford this on random days, weekly?

When cops in a small area are getting shot as often as they are in an area like this, you have to ask yourself why. Most people are glad to have business and commerce in their area, they are tax payers for Christ Sake!

This shooter was a business man with several trucks, all getting ticketed at once, multiple times a day for being inches one way or the other, aside from getting pulled over multiple times in a single day for just driving down the street!

IN THREE YEARS he had EIGHTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS IN PARKING TICKETS ALONE! Thats $500 a month! Who can afford this sadistic harassment?

I'm not saying its right to go shooting up a town but you have to see that this town drove this guy to what he did and asked for it!

Sick Sadistic Cops Need To Wake Up or their day will come when they drive some person over the edge!

Two years ago a Kirkwood cop shot an innocent teen who was uninvolved in anything....by mistake and was obviously exonerated because he was still on the job when the deceased teens brother shot and killed that cop. Oh Boo Hoo Hoo! After the cop was killed, most of the Kirkwood residents made comments amongst themselves and their close friends....he was a real jerk, it was no surprise.

Yes I feel bad for their wives and children, of coarse I do but how would their wives and children feel if they knew their police officer husband/father treated people like substandard citizens the way they often do? They would be ashamed to call some of these men their husband/father. If they only knew how sadistic some of these men can be when they misuse their authority or go above and beyond the law to torment people.

ITS ALL ABOUT KARMA GUYS! THE BIG MAN UPSTAIRS IS WATCHING! WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!

[KIRKWOOD VICTIMS]

GET A CLUE EVERYONE! In two years the Kirkwood Police have driven normal everyday people to shoot cops!!! Hellooooo!

I think there is a strong message that should be heard here, the police in small municipalities should act accordingly, with COMPASSION and integrity! They should have an internal affairs department that does something when the police officers act out of line, and have a higher division deciding over their actions.

The police in areas of St Louis located in small municipalities conduct themselves in a manner that is scandalous! Police in townships like Bella Villa, Shrewsbury, Kirkwood, Creve Coeur, Saint George.....write tickets and treat the people on the streets in an extremely antagonistic and harassing manner.

I was entering Bella Villa traffic court one evening where an elderly woman in her 80's was taken by surprise while a younger police officer with a disfigured face screamed at her in military fashion "MOVE! MOVE! MOVE! MOVE!" threatening to throw her in jail, berating her into tears, gasping for her breath and eventually a heart attack where she had to be taken away in an ambulance as the officer looked on and was laughing....all because she was parked in the wrong parking spot and was trying to apologize as she was moving. I tried reporting him a couple days later and THERE WAS NO ONE TO REPORT IT TO, NOTHING COULD BE DONE! No one has authority over what these small precincts do to people.

This is a very bad government when someone has the authority to do anything they want to you, even if its unjust.

Kirkwood police give parking tickets in excess of $50 each to some people on the same car, sometimes 5 of these in a matter of hours, while laughing at you for it and telling you "Om gonna get you whenever I can!" with gleam in their eyes like they really did something to laugh about! Who can afford this on random days, weekly?

When cops in a small area are getting shot as often as they are in an area like this, you have to ask yourself why. Most people are glad to have business and commerce in their area, they are tax payers for Christ Sake!

This shooter was a business man with several trucks, all getting ticketed at once, multiple times a day for being inches one way or the other, aside from getting pulled over multiple times in a single day for just driving down the street!

IN THREE YEARS he had EIGHTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS IN PARKING TICKETS ALONE! Thats $500 a month! Who can afford this sadistic harassment?

I'm not saying its right to go shooting up a town but you have to see that this town drove this guy to what he did and asked for it!

Sick Sadistic Cops Need To Wake Up or their day will come when they drive some person over the edge!

Two years ago a Kirkwood cop shot an innocent teen who was uninvolved in anything....by mistake and was obviously exonerated because he was still on the job when the deceased teens brother shot and killed that cop. Oh Boo Hoo Hoo! After the cop was killed, most of the Kirkwood residents made comments amongst themselves and their close friends....he was a real jerk, it was no surprise.

Yes I feel bad for their wives and children, of coarse I do but how would their wives and children feel if they knew their police officer husband/father treated people like substandard citizens the way they often do? They would be ashamed to call some of these men their husband/father. If they only knew how sadistic some of these men can be when they misuse their authority or go above and beyond the law to torment people.

ITS ALL ABOUT KARMA GUYS! THE BIG MAN UPSTAIRS IS WATCHING! WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!

[KIRKWOOD VICTIMS]

GET A CLUE EVERYONE! In two years the Kirkwood Police have driven normal everyday people to shoot cops!!! Hellooooo!

I think there is a strong message that should be heard here, the police in small municipalities should act accordingly, with COMPASSION and integrity! They should have an internal affairs department that does something when the police officers act out of line, and have a higher division deciding over their actions.

The police in areas of St Louis located in small municipalities conduct themselves in a manner that is scandalous! Police in townships like Bella Villa, Shrewsbury, Kirkwood, Creve Coeur, Saint George.....write tickets and treat the people on the streets in an extremely antagonistic and harassing manner.

I was entering Bella Villa traffic court one evening where an elderly woman in her 80's was taken by surprise while a younger police officer with a disfigured face screamed at her in military fashion "MOVE! MOVE! MOVE! MOVE!" threatening to throw her in jail, berating her into tears, gasping for her breath and eventually a heart attack where she had to be taken away in an ambulance as the officer looked on and was laughing....all because she was parked in the wrong parking spot and was trying to apologize as she was moving. I tried reporting him a couple days later and THERE WAS NO ONE TO REPORT IT TO, NOTHING COULD BE DONE! No one has authority over what these small precincts do to people.

This is a very bad government when someone has the authority to do anything they want to you, even if its unjust.

Kirkwood police give parking tickets in excess of $50 each to some people on the same car, sometimes 5 of these in a matter of hours, while laughing at you for it and telling you "Om gonna get you whenever I can!" with gleam in their eyes like they really did something to laugh about! Who can afford this on random days, weekly?

When cops in a small area are getting shot as often as they are in an area like this, you have to ask yourself why. Most people are glad to have business and commerce in their area, they are tax payers for Christ Sake!

This shooter was a business man with several trucks, all getting ticketed at once, multiple times a day for being inches one way or the other, aside from getting pulled over multiple times in a single day for just driving down the street!

IN THREE YEARS he had EIGHTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS IN PARKING TICKETS ALONE! Thats $500 a month! Who can afford this sadistic harassment?

I'm not saying its right to go shooting up a town but you have to see that this town drove this guy to what he did and asked for it!

Sick Sadistic Cops Need To Wake Up or their day will come when they drive some person over the edge!

Two years ago a Kirkwood cop shot an innocent teen who was uninvolved in anything....by mistake and was obviously exonerated because he was still on the job when the deceased teens brother shot and killed that cop. Oh Boo Hoo Hoo! After the cop was killed, most of the Kirkwood residents made comments amongst themselves and their close friends....he was a real jerk, it was no surprise.

Yes I feel bad for their wives and children, of coarse I do but how would their wives and children feel if they knew their police officer husband/father treated people like substandard citizens the way they often do? They would be ashamed to call some of these men their husband/father. If they only knew how sadistic some of these men can be when they misuse their authority or go above and beyond the law to torment people.

ITS ALL ABOUT KARMA GUYS! THE BIG MAN UPSTAIRS IS WATCHING! WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!

[Kirkwood Resident]

I know the Kirkwood police. They are friendly and very helpful unlike other manicupalities in the St. Louis area. Take Ballwin for example who, for no sense or reason harass innocent and law abiding citizens for no other reason than they have nothing better to do but bully their residents. That is why their town is turning to crap. Kirkwood however, is different. I have never seen a town's city hall or police department so nice and so helpful. Call anyone else's city hall, and they are absolutely rude and not cooperative. But Kirkwood has been simply the opposite. Nice and helpful. This isn't "Karma". This is a tragedy in the worse form. People don't deserve to die. My understanding is this is over parking tickets that he refused to pay or change over a three foot move of a vehicle. Three feet? That seems like some pettiness was arised to me. I pray for the victims. I pray for the officers families and the city councils'. This is a horrid situation and they absolutely did NOT deserve this! "Harassing" never justifies a bullet. NEVER. If Karma is so highly responsible, maybe that is why he got shot down right after he shot all those people. Just a thought.

[Nick]

My understanding is this is over parking tickets that he refused to pay or change over a three foot move of a vehicle. Three feet? That seems like some pettiness was arised to me. - KR

So are you saying that the city did indeed dig their heels in and actually decided the solution to dealing with an obstinate town crank was to be equally bull headed and stack thousands upon thousands of dollars in fines over what I assume is a parking dispute?

God, I hope that isn't the case

[j]

It looks like the moonbats were up late last night....

[big dreamer]

Ok now that is ridiculous. Conspiracy theorists unite! Why is it we never want to blame the idiot who is pulling the trigger. Hold the person responsibile for what they did. Gosh Wally, wouldn't that be swell! Nooo instead we need to find a way to displace blame and put it on other people. The guy was TRYING to do the right thing but was not intelligent enough to represent himself nor to hire an attorney. The First Amendment does not protect you if you are being stupid with your comments. Free speech does not include Libel and name-calling like a child. I do not care what this guys beef was with the city, a gun and murder is NEVER an answer. This was a grown man who should know better but what else should we expect of people these days. In the crazy messed up world the gun seems to be everyones answer. Ignorance...that is all it is...plain, simple ignorance.

[DSW]

I have read alot about this and it sounds like the guy snapped. He had thousands of dollars in parking fines. How the he l l does that happen? What cop goes out and tickets the same vechile everyday just because he can?

Im not saying they deserved bullets but I figure this guy figured he had no way to pay that (most of us dont) and had no other means of recourse.

Sad over all. I hope after people get better or pass on that someone in a higher ups take a look at what really happened here. The gun man knew he was dead when he went to the meeting that night.

[Caroline]

This is very sad. I'm a native St. Louisan and Kirkwood is very close to my family's home. It really is a nice, quiet, community-driven place with a great history and this is the second major tragedy to happen there in recent times. This is the same community where Michael Devlin lived.

I certainly don't think that the Kirkwood police harass anyone. We'll see where the investigation leads.

[Street]

Wow, this is something we Truman State alums can really be proud of.
And seriously, those people died because this man was evil. Not because the police were oppressive. Not because of parking tickets. Not any of those things. This man was a vindictive murderer. Many people are mistreated in this world. Few resort to this.

[Josephine McNeal]

We have to call them what they are, EVIL. People are stressed out and without Jesus Christ in your life you have no restraint to keep you from this awful act of committing murder in "cold blood".

We had better begin to start meetings praying for protection to keep the enemy out, because sometimes he's right there in the mist of you.
mcneal

I visit the STL area about three times a year and I have witnessed officers in action on my own. Not to say he was right but the officers in these small municipalities are out of control! God bless all the people involved.

[Give us a break!]

Come on, Kirkwood Victims, not only is your comment as long as the article, but you had to post it 3 TIMES???

[fyi]

Its unbelievable that anyone would try to provide a valid reason for this animals actions in killing innocent people.

His brother says he went to war? What he did was murder Police Officers and innocent, unarmed citizens.

The article states most of the violations / convictions were for housing code violations, not traffic tickets, as asserted by some.

The only good that came from this was the Police putting this animal down before he killed more innocent lives.

Those of you who believe there is a valid reason for this animal killing innocent lives need psychological help, please seek it!

[816-314]

It's a sad day in Kirkwood. For someone with intimate knowledge of the victims involved and also Cookie (the shooter), it is difficult to process. There is no excuse for the horrific pain he has unleashed on a community already hurting and stewing in racial tension. However, it is also wrong to frame this situation within the moments between the trigger-pulls. At times like these, people seem to take comfort in the cut and dry labeling of good versus evil and black versus white. Although this is a natural reaction, it is a defensive tool that ultimately divides us further. I don't think anyone involved would have ever predicted this tragic end to a decade's long conflict. But as the shock subsided, those close to both sides are now realizing the warning signs were ignored and we are in a deeper chasm than ever before. I pray for all the families and the entire Kirkwood community.

Somebody needs to do the same thing to the Wyandotte County Rental Inspections office. Those idiots will make you spend $5000 in repairs, then thumb their nose at you by admitting that the house would be fine without the repairs but that they have the power to make your life hell if they don't like you. I used to have to deal with them. I can't definitely understand where the guy in Kirkwood is coming from.

[j]

Yeah, that's a good reason to blow somebody's head off.

Stupid animals.

[GetThatThroughYourThickSkull]

James please track down the idiot who posted that "he definitely understands where the shooter is coming from" and out him to the cops before he kills one of us. Geezuz....the same cranks that defend these isiots are the ones who would go crazy if their loved one was hurt.
I'm just glad the moron offed himself so we didn't have to give him publicity and pay for the cost of a trial.
As for the idiots brother...well, its obvious they are some genetic defects in thier family tree. I suspect that moron will have some problems living down the callous remarks he made. Maybe some vigilante will get a ready available gun and hunt him down. Oh well....Good Riddance to him too.

[JUSTICE]

If the brother knew of the plan and did nothing to stop it or warn the city. He will be facing five or six counts of accessory to commit murder, and or six counts manslaughter. The brother is just as guilty as the murderer.
Especially with his comments to defend the killer.

[DSW]

What a hypocrite you attack the shooter’s character without knowing any of the facts. Then you are glad we don’t have to worry about giving him a fair trial. Then you think it’s a good idea for someone to become a “vigilante” and kill his brother. Like I said what a hypocrite.

YOU KNOW NOTHING YET. Let the facts come out. I think you will see someone harassed this person to his breaking point. Is it right hell no. But it happens. How would you feel if the city came in took your business took your home though fines you could not pay. What would you do?

[ME]

You people need to read the story a bit better He was a contractor who was violating city codes so he was getting ticketed. You haev to follow building codes and city codes and processes and licensing requirements when you are a contractor. Just as when you drive, you are to follow traffic laws. If you don't follow them you risk getting a ticket. As a former employee in a city government codes department, I've seen people get angry when they don't get their way. Throwing temper tantrums and acting out at council meetings is not the way to work to an agreement. Neither is killing people. People need to stop spouting nonsense about harassment and this is what the government drives people to and start looking at WHY this was happening. Everyone has the right to VOTE to change the elected officials in the cities they live in. GET INVOLVED IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My condolences go out to the family and friends of those murdered last night, and to the entire city of Kirkwood.

[bigalsbeans]

DSW, I think its pretty obvious that this guy was a flippin' idiot, so I think attacking his character is justified. Especially after watching his mother's comments on tv (something to the effect he shot the ones he had a problem with) I really question the whole family's character. No matter how he was treated, does he have the right to just gun people down? He lost his lawsuit, multiple reports tell how he was basically a complete idiot at the council meetings, its just too bad the cop outside couldn't shoot him first.

I don't think his only recourse was to shoot several people.

I think when the facts all come out they will show that this guy was a complete idiot deserving completely the spot in hell that he gets to occupy!

[David]

The sad thing is, it all started over something stupid. I am a bailbondsman and trust me, 98% of my clients are in jail over traffic violations. The jails are full of them. It all amounts to the mighthy dollar. There is more money to be collected from traffic violators as opposed to murderers, rapists and drug dealers.
The situation in Kirkwood was very sad. They pushed a man to his limit, but instead of packing up and moving elsewhere he took matters into his own hands. This is also a reminder of how useless signs are that say, NO GUNS ALLOWED, that did not matter to him. Maybe if someone inside had been armed he would have been dead sooner.

[Jim]

To justify shooting innocent people bacause you are mad at the government is beyond ridiculous. His brothers feeble attempts at giving excuses for his murderous spree and his mothers comments with both showing no remorse for the victims tells me they have family "issues". And no the brother should not be subject to vigilante justice but I'm glad he spoke up. Now we know another idiot in that family exists.

[I'm rich b*tch!]

It's about time a person that goes "crazy" is black. It's usually a white guy.

[DSW]

All I am saying is lets see what the full report says in a couple of months. I would like to know what all those fines where for. Where they traffic fines, building code fines, or his house building code fines (sorry might be saying that wrong). He is a fool for not getting an attorney and "go to war" like most Americans do when they are wronged by the government, sue the crap out of them.

And before anyone else says I need "psychological help" might I add I was just bringing up points of what might of been wrong with the guy. I think he was mentally disturbed. I think the whole family might have issues since they think the man was in the right. Or of course it maybe the family's way of dealing with what there son/brother has done.

He had no right in killing those people. What I was saying is the city "MAY" of pushed him to his breaking point. Everyone has a breaking point some peoples is just really low sadly (road rage people come to mind).

[Dave]

Kirkwood Victims,

Get your facts straight. Two years ago, a cop DID NOT shoot Kevin Johnson's brother. Kevin Johnson thought they failed to help his brother who had a heart ailment.

There's nothing wrong with the police in Kirkwood. This guy didn't want to follow the rules and thought the big bad white government had it in for him. He was a slow learner if it took 500 tickets to make him understand you can't park commercial vehicles at your residence.

He went to war and now he's burning in Hades for it. Hope he thinks he's better off in the lake of fire.

[SBONZAI]

R.I.P. COOKIE, THEY BEAT YOU UNTIL YOU STOOD UP, AS A PROUD MAN, HEAD HIGH. EAT WHAT YOU HAVE SOWN. THESE EVIL PEOPLE WILL NO LONGER GRIND YOU DOWN.

[Piece of crap]

Yeah RIP Cookie- you piece of crap. Enjoy hell. And to all the racists, and scumbags defending this piece of human trash, next time let's hope it's you or your mother that gets shot. A Proud Man? Really? More like a cowardly piece of human dirt. He didn't even have the courage to face a court. Rot in hell and I hope your brother dies of cancer.

[KeenObserver]

to the person that said its usually "a white guy who goes crazy"....not true. About 90% of the weekend homicides in KC occur in Eastern Kansas City. If shooting your husband, wife, sister, son isn't crazy then I don't what is.

[Crazy]

Wow, these comments are so contradictory! You call him crazy and a racists yet you people wish ill will on his family and call them disparaging names like the bullies and cowards you no doubt are. Maybe now these racist communities will think twice before they harass tax paying citizens of their respective communities. He shouldn't have killed these people, but I understand how he could have snapped. You white people have no idea of what they probably put him through. You say good riddance to him, I say good riddance to white oppressive police who abuse their powers, good riddance to the council members who no doubt played a role in this mans decision to take this drastic measure! You people don;t have to worry about getting pulled over just because of the color of your skin, you don't have to worry about receiving non-sense citations and giving them your hard earned cash. All these small town redneck townships should take heed and leave people alone or this will continute happen. Karma is a mother...

[CopinKC]

Hey KIRKWOOD VICTIMS, you're a moron. You obviuosly have no sense of right or wrong just like the thug who killed all these inncoent people. Your attempt to justify the killing of 2 Police Officers and 3 other inncocent civilians is sickening. People like you amaze me, you don't even have the intellignce to recognize that what happened is wrong and there is NO way to justify it. If the bonehead thug had simply obeyed the law like the rest of us then he would not have had an issue with the City of Kirkwood. I'm a former Chesterfield Police Officer so I know the St Louis area very well. I have Cop friends all over the St Louis are and I know the Kirwood Police is a high quality municipal Police Department.

Based on Kirkwood Victims' first-hand account of what the police are like in Kirkwood, it sounds like they had it coming.

[Not Surprised]

All cops should take heed- the more and more you harass, the more people are getting fed up.

to SBONZAI who wrote
"Rot in hell and I hope your brother dies of cancer."
in response to the shooter taking the lives of 5 people, your answer makes you sound the same as the perp.

we look at what led to the situation and not just the end result since that's how you begin to find answers instead of conclusions by summarizing your feelings with wishes of violence.

this is why america remains violent. too many close-minded people who pretend that problems don't exist and those that suffer from them can go **** themselves.

what the shooter did is unforgivable and yet, just like the city council did to him, we shut out the perceptions of others we do not agree with until they bubble into something dangerous, and, most frighteningly, come back to haunt us.

[CareBear]

This is a very sad event. How about a little respect for the lives lost and the wounded left to deal with this horrible tragedy.

[Reasonable Person]

If this was a white guy that shot four black people, all you supporters would be singing a different tune. You'd be saying what a racist attack it was, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be protesting at the courthouse- what a bunch of hateful, racists you are, and you say they had it coming just because they were white.
Disgusting excuses for human beings.

[ME]

Why is it that every time there is any difference in race at all, people always use that as an excuse? There are SO many things caucasians can't do that teh black get away with. Example--BET: Black Entertainment Television, Jet Magazine, etc. If caucasians had those organizations, they'd be sued so fast. It's sad, the state of our world, that people can't take responsibility for their actions, REGARDLESS of the color of their skin.

[Not Surprised]

politicans will see this as nothing more than a reason to up the budget for security in city buildings and halls around the country and to pass tougher restrictions on public attendants who, in their sensistive and over exaggerated opinions, are uncooperative. This will only allow goverment to flex their political muscle and abuse futher.

[Not Surprised]

let's not call out race.

Earlier this week a 15 year old bold killed his parents and brothers.
Yesterday a husband went into the school of his wife where he stabbed her to death in front of her students.
in both examples the offenders were white.

who cares what inept pseudo community figures (i.e. Sharpton, Jackson) have to say in regards to race being an issue about anything. it's a shame that they are considered a voice of reason by America. they only hinder the progress of their people, not promote it.

if you look up the list of the world's most notorious serial killers, you will find the majority of them white.

summation -there is ill in all people. unless the perp here said "kill whitey" instead of "kill the mayor", your racially movitated theories are nothing but a moot point.

[Big Dog]

This is really and unfortunate incident. Nobody expects to go to work and not come home. I realize it can be frustrating when dealing with the courts and municipalities but this definitely went way to far. I work for a large municipality and they can make your life miserable if they want to. It cost them nothing to do it and it cost you a lot of time and money to get straight. You can't get aggressive with people in power because they will be less sympathetic to your issue. This could have been resolved without things getting this tense.

There needs to be some kind of mediation between the citizens and the local government to resolve these issues besides constantly going to court and paying lawyers who keep in mind, are friends or familiar with local government officials.

There is no question that some people with authority will harass you if they don't like and do so within their power and authority. That's why there needs to statistics kept on how authority figures interpret and enforce the local laws. By doing so you can try and weed out the bad apples and or change policies.

[cml]

IMO I don't believe race has anything to do with this. I am an old White guy, but I have been so frustrated and angry with Tax entities and Child Support Court in my distant past---that who knows....

I have personally seen so many people angered to the point of violence and hatred by Star Chamber tactics of some of our Govt. Agencies. State and Federal. Once you get caught in the Vortex...

Its is the lack of logic, the marginalization and criminalization of everyday people that IMO make normal morons like me -- occasionally dangerous.

I pray to live out my declining years without any problems. But make no mistake about it, I am terrified of the Govt., its power, arbitratry, capricious, random and FINAL!

The guy did not go crazy because of his skin color. He just went crazy, and, nothing, but nothing happens in a vacuum.

[KCHawkeye]

If I were the police I would worry about this idiot's brothers. By the sound of their comments, they will be the next to pull the trigger!

[Hushpook]

Sounds like some are condoning the killing of cops & elected officals. Aren't these people known as anarchists?

There is no justification for killing a cop, or an elected official, unless they have put your life in danger. Parking tickets are a far cry from that.

[Donald Trump]

Look, I'm a great judge of people and Charles Thornton was a big fat loser. If he had a real job, he wouldn't have been spending so much time causing a ruckus at City Council meetings where he had no business. The powers that be prevailed and God looked down upon this man and said, "You're fired." I couldn't have said it any better........

[JR]

It is really sad how far some people will go to avoid admitting that they were not right in a particular situation. The murder had been fined repeatedly for violating building codes. I realize that some building code issues can be frustrating to deal with (I’ve dealt with them myself), but the fact of the matter is that they are the laws / regulations to which people in the construction industry must comply. Rather than just comply with the codes like everyone else, the murder decided that he shouldn't have to comply and raised the situation to the point that he harassed and eventually killed police officers and city officials. What would have been so bad about just paying the fine and complying with the codes whether he liked them or not?

I realize that this may be controversial to some people on this site, but the Holy Bible offers much wisdom in this area. People who accept discipline are on the pathway to life, but those who ignore correction will go astray (Proverbs 10:17). Pride leads to disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom (Proverbs 11:2).

I pray that for God’s healing and mercy for the victims’ families, the shooter’s family and for others on this site that have posted such hateful messages.

[Dick Tracy]

"James please track down the idiot who posted that "he definitely understands where the shooter is coming from" and out him to the cops before he kills one of us."

I'm busy right now, but I'll have Liz get somebody on it. You are a fine citizen and I will recommend that you receive a gold star for your outstanding efforts to rid the world of evil doers'.

That's a good one! Yeah let's call the cops on people who make meaningless statements on a meaningless blog that is just here for our perverted entertainment.

[The Police]

Please quit bringing up the race issue. We are intolerant of people of any color. We rule you. We have guns, tasers, toxic gases, batons, handcuffs and if that ain't enough we have radios to call more of us if need be.

[Travis McGee]

"Maybe some vigilante will get a ready available gun and hunt him down."-GetThatThroughYourThickSkull

So you think it's ok for somebody to murder the shooters brother for making callous statements?

You are as crazy as the guy who did this! It is the exact same kind of thinking with the exception that this guy was apparently screwed with almost every day of the week, while you on the other hand want to whack somebody just for speaking in a manner that you do not care for.

Pal you are much sicker and whacked out than the brother. We need to "out" you to the cops.