Dying for nothing

An interesting story from the DC metro area, where police are dealing with a series of murders that occurred, basically, for no good reason, The Washington Post reports. LIke the guy who killed his friend over a $23 debt. Or the fight at a pizza joint that turned into a triple slaying.

Police say part of the problem is too many guns in the wrong hands -- young men who don't have permits, but who carry anyway because they feel like they're constantly in danger. A lot of situations that could've ended up as yelling matches or fistfights escalate into murder.

Comments

[G]

NONSENSE!

What do police who actually work the streets know about guns anyway? Guns don't kill people! Guns are good! Guns guns guns!

[BuchananBartender]

They have the guns illegally. So let's ban guns. Then, when we catch them with guns, they'll have them illegally. ?

The problem is the judges: "Because many of the gun cases are first offenses, officials said, they are often not prosecuted. When they are, judges are hesitant to impose stiff penalties, even as the number of young people caught with firearms increases, officials said."

It's like the other story up the page where the guy lost his license, but still got a DUI. By all means, let's ban cars. :)

[G]

Hey, the gun nuts have gotten their way in this country for over 2 centuries. Guns a plenty!

Now it's woven into our society. Guns are everywhere. YOU created the problem, and YOU keep offering the same solution: Hey, just arm yourself.

Well thanks for nothing, gun nuts. I think the gun culture you've cultivated for 2 centuries sucks, and I think your "eye for an eye" solution sucks too. I'm supposed to thank you for "solving" a problem that YOU created by suggesting I become either a murderer, or a murder victim?

FAIL.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

G, check out http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Guns-in-Restaurants.html

It's sure to give you a warm fuzzy feeling during your next visit to Applebee's. It scared the peewaddling out of me.

[BuchananBartender]

I gave you the problem & solution in the second paragraph (which I copy & pasted from the article). Instead you read "ARM YOURSELF!!" and nearly wet yourself with self-important indignation.

I don't know what to do with reading comprehension like that.

[You're a Mean Drunk R2D2™]

But But, DC has banned guns, so they shouldn't have any there.

I think it's time they went to a new strategy. Everyone packing heat.

[blarneology]

Guns are banned in DC so how is this an issue with legal gun owners? How does G blame legal gun owners for an issue where law enforcement and the government took guns away from legal gun owners and now has out of control gun crime. I'm not questioning G's logic here but how do you ban something that is already banned? How do you make it more illegal and how does this issue stem from people who own legal firearms?

I am kind of mixed on the gun issue. i beleive in possessing the ability to protect one's self and property, but in most cases if you are involved in something where shots are fired you seldom get the first shot, and that is paramount to winning with guns, initiate fire superiority is the first thing to do. and if you are digging for your gun while being shot at then you are at a clear disadvantage. however if some crazy ass went to a class and can legally carry a gun and then pick and choose his fights it makes a scary situation for the rest of us.

There is nothing wrong with guns. The problem lies in our legal system. If they catch these criminals with unregistered guns lock them up, 5 years min. instead they let them go and take the guns. An hour later they have another. Make it illegal to carry an unregistered gun, oh yeah it already is. Wake up judges

If it wasn't guns, it would be knives or something else. The gangster culture is to blame. A large majority of the ethnic minority want to prove how "hard" they are and that they are "thugs."

[Lance Weber]

Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works

The right to bear arms did *not* originate in America, but dates back to 12th century England. It is *not* a right which has been bestowed upon us by Government. The Bill of Rights, which is a list of limitations on Government (not the people) presumes that our rights come from God, not Government. If you prefer an atheistic approach, consider them as human rights in accordance with the the principles of natural law. Thank goodness our Founders studied history. I like to say that an armed society is a polite society. Cheers!

[Time to Be Serious]

Regardless of whether a fist fight or a gun fight happened, the better question is why do such trivial items result in any violence?

Unfortunately, many of the social mores that used to be enforced by disapproval and ostracism of the offender are now ignored by society.

Law enforcement and the criminal courts are going to be overwhelmed when that happens.

One place to start to reverse this trend is to dump the PC garbage philosophy that all cultures are worth respect.........many aren't.

[Marvin]

I'd hope that guns rights advocates realize that "right to carry" already exists and we're seeing the results. Not everyone you read about shooting someone over a card game has an illegal weapon. This is the problem with "right to carry," you end up with guns being used in emotional situations.

The last figure I heard was you're 22 times more likely to injure someone you know with a firearm than you are to defend your home against an intruder.

Really Marvin? Can you site how many people have been shot by folks who are legal to carry? Especially in DC which doesn't have such a law? LOLOLOL!

Please also site your figure since it seems about laughable.

[KC CIcero]

Anyone over 60 remembers the term "zip gun" -- a one shot .22 made in a shop that was the WMD of the 1960's -- back when guns were expensive and rare and kids settled fights with their fists.

Now we have a .38 or 9 mm for every man woman, child, dog & cat in America -- and somehow we are supposed to think that is unrelated to the high death toll. We are supposed to think that has nothing to do with kids distaining fists for bullets?

The old .22 one-shot, a knife, even a bat are way tougher to kill with -- since most folks take great exception to being killed, and seek to avoid that fate. It is harder to kill the fleet of foot, and the injuries are less likely to be fatal, than with a hail of bullets.

But alas, those who fondle their .45's are impervious to such mere reason.

[blarneology]

The original zip guns didn't use bullets. You are thinking of a Saturday night special. Zip guns originated in prison and were made out of whatever could propel an object generally ball bearings, glass, screws etc.

It has nothing to do with how many guns are in the country if that was your point of the second paragraph. It has to do with people not being able to handle their own emotions.

You are kidding if you think a knife or bat are harder to kill with. This is not even a rational argument or thought.

But alas, those who like to make things up are impervious to mere coherent thought.

[Marvin]

Anonymous Coward,

When I refer to "right to carry" I'm talking about an ad hoc law of the streets. Not everyone packing heat in bad neighborhoods is a criminal. Lots of people carry for protection from the thugs that terrorize their neighborhoods. So, what you're seeing is an analogous "right to carry" system at work.

And, the problem is that when people are carrying guns all the time, they're much more likely to use them for emotional reasons.

As for my sources, I've heard the figure stated from pundits often. Do a Google search for "guns 22 times likely" and you'll see some of the raw figures and arguments.

[Marvin]

Blarney,

"You are kidding if you think a knife or bat are harder to kill with."

You've got to be kidding. Are you aware of the stopping power of even a crappy 9mm compared to a knife wound?

[blarneology]

Marvin, actually yes. A 9mm has very little stopping power because it's a fast bullet. it tends to travel through it's target hence not releasing the energy into it. You get the same reaction from the .223 bullet. This is why the military has been looking into going back to the .45 (which the marines have already singed contracts for). When a bullet travels through it's target it tends to not cause the trauma of a slower bullet that will stop in the target. This is why with 9mm's you tend to have to hit your target multiple times which unless some hoodrat is right on top of their target won't happen. A baseball bat releases much more energy than a 9mm.

Maybe you should study up a little on the topic, eh marvin?

[blarneology]

"When I refer to "right to carry" I'm talking about an ad hoc law of the streets. Not everyone packing heat in bad neighborhoods is a criminal. Lots of people carry for protection from the thugs that terrorize their neighborhoods. So, what you're seeing is an analogous "right to carry" system at work."

Marvin that's called illegal and they are breaking the law. Hence they are not legally carrying that firearm. You made yourself wrong on that one.

"And, the problem is that when people are carrying guns all the time, they're much more likely to use them for emotional reasons."

me thinks you are just pulling this information out of your arse. I would love to see some scientific research to back this up.

"As for my sources, I've heard the figure stated from pundits often. Do a Google search for "guns 22 times likely" and you'll see some of the raw figures and arguments."

Why should anyone else have to go look up your information for you? You state it so you back it up.

I'm the anonymous coward by the way typekey purged my name for some reason, but it's good to know you are approaching this topic so calmly. So how about you site those sources of all those people legally carrying guns in DC please.

[Lance Weber]

Wikipedia has an interesting page on zip guns. It appears that they never went out of style.

Marvin, I googled your phrase & the 2nd result is an NRA article that seems to debunk it. If you are afraid of guns then you are welcome not to keep one. I prefer to be in charge of my own safety.

[Roy - Canada]

Posted by: BuchananBartender | Wednesday, May 14, 2008 at 07:11 AM

Hey, the gun nuts have gotten their way in this country for over 2 centuries. Guns a plenty!

Now it's woven into our society. Guns are everywhere. YOU created the problem, and YOU keep offering the same solution: Hey, just arm yourself.

Well thanks for nothing, gun nuts. I think the gun culture you've cultivated for 2 centuries sucks, and I think your "eye for an eye" solution sucks too. I'm supposed to thank you for "solving" a problem that YOU created by suggesting I become either a murderer, or a murder victim?

So, you`re saying you would not protect a loved one from being killed, because that would make you a murderer?....Coward..

[blarneology]

Lance, no zip guns haven't gone out of style, Marvin just posted non-sense without researching what he was talking about.

This happens a lot around here.

[Marvin]

Lance,

I gave you search arguments so that you could see all the links rather than just links I pointed you to. Now, if you choose to discount the figures, that's up to you. An anonymous coward acted like I pulled the figure out of my butt, so I showed him where to find the proof.

Blarney,

Let's have a knife VS gun fight and we'll see which one of us wins since you seem to be so convinced that a knife or a bat is just as easy to kill with as a gun. And, if knifes and bats are so dangerous, what's the point of owning a gun? Hmmm? That's what I thought.