Should pregnant inmates be shackled during labor?

You've got to admit -- it would be an unlikely time for an escape attempt. A federal appeals court has agreed to hear the case of a former inmate, a woman who did time in Arkansas for credit-card fraud, who says she was shackled to the bed for most of her labor.

Comments

[Truth Teller]

Keep them shackled. They could be a danger to the child. They are CRIMINALS after all!

[Jellybean]

OMG! I can't imagine how awful that would be. Anyone suffering labor pains ain't going anywhere fast. That's both ridiculous and horrific.

[blarneology]

Keep em shackled, they are a federal inmate.

[Jane]

As one that has given birth 3 times I would say that sounds really bad. But, we are only hearing half the story. If the inmate has having natural labor with no pain killers it would in my opinion be inhuman treatment not to be able to move around while in the pains of labor. But, if she was on narcotics or had an epidural then what’s the point undoing her shackles. She wouldn’t have been able or wouldn’t want to get out of bed to begin with. Where do we find the priority, baby’s health, mother’s health, or safety of healthcare workers and prison staff?

[aqua]

yes shackled.

and hog-tied with a ball gag in their mouth...

[blarneology]

Think of it this way. If they had not committed federal felonies they would not even have to worry about this. They are criminals and just because they are giving birth does not mean they didn't commit the crimes, it just means they can procreate. The criminals comfort is not something we should be worried about.

[blarneology]

Aqua, that sounds kind of sexy especially if there is a midget with chaps involved.

[Bored at Work]

Depending on the criminal it seems like a really good time to escape and you have a brand new hostage, hate to say it but I would not put it past some people in the world.

[Truth Teller]

We all want to give in to the tugs at our heartstrings.....

Keep them shackled and chained.

[monty]

All right sweetheart you can be unshackled if you let us tie your tubes after giving birth to your meal ticket....Deal?

[Jellybean]

You guys can be really mean sometimes. Labor pains HURT. That's what that breathing thing is about - they hurt so bad that you forget to breath. An epidural would make it impossible to walk plus numb the pain of the labor - how about that for an alternative?
I get that they're prisoners but heck, maybe some of them are there because they smoked weed or their dog attacked a bear or something else ridiculous.

[winkyb2me]

Save it Jellybean. These guys have proven over and over they're just morons. I've given up on them.

[blarneology]

Smoking weed is not a federal felony nor would it land someone in federal prison. Same for the dog attacking the bear, that one hasn't played out so it's pointless to even try to use that as an example.

WoW, winky calls others morons yet doesn't seem to understand what a federal felony is. Nice one hotshot.

[Jellybean]

Blarney
Okay - this is off the subject of whether it's in-humane to shackle a woman in labor but...
If it is the Feds who will prosecute you for using medicinal marijuana - even if legal in your state - then how would it not land you in a Federal Prison? Educate me, please.

[Julie]

I think it depends on what she's in for. The one used in the example was in for credit card fraud. I can't see her being a danger to medical staff unless they leave their ssn laying somewhere in the room.

A violent criminal, sure. Lock her up. Don't give her drugs. Count it as part of her punishment. But a white collar criminal? Seems cruel and unusual to me...

[winkyb2me]

Blarney, you forget I work for lawyers. Yes, I know what a federal felony is. I also know you'll never know the pain of labor. Therefore, you're not qualified to have an opinion here.

Have a nice "Labor Day" weekend, though!

[James Hart]

Not that winky doesn't WISH you could understand labor firsthand, blarn ...

[Truth Teller]

Labor pains can't hurt that much!
And that is no excuse to throw justice out the window. Next thing you know they'll want to get away with murder because of Pre Menstrual Syndrome!

Huh. Oh. They already have?

O.K.

[Leonard]

Jelly bean you're so cute.

[Jonathan]

OK, how about a compromise of shackles with 3 foot chains. Security is still there, but with plenty of leeway to "flop around" all you want. You could do the 4 pairs of handcuff trick they have to use on really fat guys.

[Chuck Rizzo]

This isn't an issue with this case, it even says in the description for MOST of the labor not ALL. So maybe they had her shackled until she actually was in full labor and not just having contractions. We need more of the story, how long she was shackled and at what points.

Maybe they brought her to the room in shackles but took them off right away.

It does explain - She was unchained for dialation checks and time to push. She was chained during labor. Despite Truth-tellers' skeptisim, labor pains can be excruciating. We aren't screaming because it tickles.
There's a wide range from just plain old painful to so painful the woman loses consciousness. If hers closer to the latter variety - being chained would be tantamount to torture.

So, I guess now the question is: Should the punishment for identity theft be torture?

[AreUSerious]

Aren't we talking about human beings? Is it humane in any case to restrain a person while in need of medical attention? Especially in the case of labor, why ask why?

[Brian]

They should be shackled, and after they give birth, shackle the babies, too.

[Erica F]

Are you kidding? Those of you who say she does need to be shackled have obviously never given child birth!!!

[Jonathan]

OK. Another compromise, no shackles but if they try to take advantage of the situation to try and escape or take their child hostage, we shoot them. I know most women also love to watch TV for the whole 9 months they are pregnant, so we could provide TVs for all pregnant women in custody. Maybe daily prenatal massages...oooh, with chocolates and candles. A few extra pillows to put between their knees. Maybe a personal assistant to beckon upon their every want, because since they are in jail there are not any men to wait on them hand and foot. I also know that heart attacks are pretty painful, so all convicts should not be shackled while having a heart attack, lets hope none of these upstanding citizens fake it.

[AH]

For the other group that is on here. Think of having a basket ball size growth inside of you being forced out of your p###s waiting for your dangle to expand enough for the growth to come out. I truely don't think that would be painful at all. The women even those that have never given birth will understand the similarity.

[blarneology]

Winky, I never knew you worked for attorneys so no way I could have forgotten. I must say that I don't believe it either.

[blarneology]

Piss on them if they are in federal prison they need to be in shackles. I have no sympathy for them since maybe they should have been thinking of the child before committing the crimes.

[Over70]

I gather most of the people who submit to this webb are redneck males. So we will have a new law any man who has a kidney stone must be shackled and no pain pills. Then if they are able to recupt they will get divilveticiulis and the national guard will not be called out with the jaws of life.

[blarneology]

Over70, Is English your second language?

[Over70]

No but the way things looked it should be.

[Mom]

With little effort she could bust out of shackles with just one intense labor pain.

[AG]

An archangel could appear with new information from God Himself and it would not change Truth Teller's or blarney's opinion on anything. Don't you people know that by now?

What are you smoking AG?

[Rosie]

I have never had kids, but I don't see a problem with keeping inmates secured while giving birth. I think it can be done humanely and without compromising the health of the newborn. I don't have much sympathy for women in that situation, simply bc I don't see much reason for anyone to procreate in today's overpopulated world to begin with. It is irresponsible and reckless to reproduce at all, especially with approximately 100K children in foster homes needing adoptive families.

[noneposted]

well, coming from a recent victim of identity theft where (and I will have an attorney figure this out) I am being garnished over 600 dollars a pay period for a debt I did not accrue, authorize, know about...I would say shackle the beyotch...I am paying to prove myself innocent and to prove illegal collection practices...

as for the dorky men who have no idea about labor...well, go eat your paste...

[Oldjoe]

I believe that each case is different and instead of a generalized blanket policy, there should be some research into the Mother's crime and her past (if any) DFS history. If it's a serious/violent felony and a wrap sheet a mile long and accumulated serious violations while incarcerated or she has lost 1 or 2 previous children due to DFS decisions, then I could see justification for shackles, handcuffs and a belly chain!

Even though the government is not required to use the least intrusive means available to restrain a prisoner, it seems that in this situation some grace should be afforded. Remember, grace is extended because of the character of the one extending the grace, not because of the character of the one receiving it. It saddens me to think that the majority of the comments posted here - if they reflect who we are as a society - show us to be negative, mean spirited, and full of hatred and revenge. I do not believe that such characterization is an accurate reflection of who we are individually nor collectively.

As a father of 3 I would have to believe - although I have no evidence - that the mental well being of the mother during childbirth will effect the types and amounts of hormones released during childbirth. I am unsure whether that effects the child, but I would assume that it would. Regardless, why give the mother a negative first image of her child arriving into the world? I do know that those first few minutes, hours, and days, are critical bonding times.

I think that the general rule should be to post a guard outside (or even inside if necessary) the room. Of course, if you're dealing with a dangerous and/or violent offender then I understand the extra precaution of restraints.

As for the numerous postings here saying that because she has committed a crime she is not entitled to be treated gingerly during childbirth I can only say this: With the ever increasing criminalization of behavior in our society, and the constant reclassification of crimes to raise more and more offenses from misdemeanor to felony I would be very careful about volunteering to cast the first stone against anyone. I am not defending the criminal actions of this lady. I'm simply saying that beating down a human being for each and every wrongdoing to the point of not only breaking, but crushing, their spirit does not rehabilitate them, nor make their transition from bad actor to society contributor likely, let alone easy.

We as a society are getting so worked up about our individual struggles, lost dreams, and under-achievement that it seems many are seeking to pounce and crush anyone else caught doing things many of us may have done in the same situation.

I know nothing about this lady nor her crimes. I am not advocating that she in particular deserves special favor. I'm simply trying to balance what we as a society profess is our purpose of the criminal justice system. The two main functions are to punish and rehabilitate. (Although the protection of society is another oft quoted reason). How is locking her to a bed a reasonable function of punishment and rehabilitation when reasonable alternatives exist that meet the needs of protecting society? Doesn't such action only over-punish, thus make rehabilitation even more difficult?

Before too many of you blast me as a liberal - I am not. Politically I much more conservative than I am often accused of. I tend to vote Republican the vast majority of the time, and almost always do so in national elections. While I am socially conservative in my own behavior, I do understand that I must be liberal in extending grace and a helping hand to those who may be in disagreement - in word or action - with me. While imprisoning persons who act outside our parameters of accepted behavior is sometimes necessary as both a punishment and a deterrent, humiliation and degradation is not. Treating such person with respect as they pay their dues to society should be a cornerstone of demonstrating to them how polite society behaves, and how they are expected to behave when their dues are paid.

[T]

Gee, I guess most prisoners escape at times when the guards are at their most suspicious?

While shackles seem at first glance to be overdoing it, restraint is perfectly valid. There are many potential weapons in a hospital or clinic setting, not to speak of the risk of contaminated blood, etc--prisoners have high incidence of HIV, heapatitis, etc.

The article is silent about the history of this particular inmate. Does she have a history of escape attempts or violence against inmates, guards, etc? That is germane to the level of precautions needed.

[Common-tater]

"... you're not qualified to have an opinion here."

So in winkyworld, we're not qualified to have an opinion on anything we haven't experienced?

Hmm. That would mean I don't get to have an opinion about Iraq because I've never been there ... or an opinion about Medicare because I've never been on Medicare?

Wrong-o winky. This is a democracy. Everybody gets to have an opinion on anything they want. And you're entitled to ignore their opinion if you think they don't have all the facts (e.g. blarney), or they're ignoring important facts (e.g. blarney), or they're knuckle-dragging, pinheads (e.g. you know who).

[Eddy Haskel]

Hey Blarn,

You really shouldn't be out there trying to impersonate the grammar police. Maybe you could pursue a new career. I hear there are openings in javelin and yard-dart catching. If that proves too difficult, you could just forget to breathe for a few days. Just a thought.

[ms]

Sorry, I forgot to put my name on my 3:57 post.

I agree with tater - just because men don't experience the physical pain of child birth does not mean we do not experience the pain and joy of child birth. I was present for the birth of all three of my children. One of which nearly killed my child and my wife. I was also present when one child died during delivery. I assure you that I felt physical pain that day. Not only was I emotionally hurting, I physically hurt for a very long time. My wife and I spent many sleepless nights together crying over the loss of that child. She never once told me that I could not understand her pain as she knew I was suffering that pain with her.

While I have never felt the physical pain of birthing a child, I have had sympathy for my wife. Just as I felt the pain my son endured when he fell off his bicycle and broke his arm, I felt the pain of my wife as she struggled to give life to our children.

On the same note, I also have experienced joy, exhaustion, and fascination at the birth of my children.

I felt the pain and desperation of my wife when she lost one child during child birth, and nearly lost my son and wife during the delivery of my son. I also experienced the miracle of his life when the remarkable doctors at Shawnee Mission Medical Center saved them both.

To discount the power of sympathy of a man for a woman during child birth is to discount the validity of the man as a participant.

Perhaps this sympathy is why I feel that chaining a woman to a bed during childbirth should be reserved for only the most dangerous of criminals. I understand the duty and need of corrections officers to protect the prisoner from herself, prevent escape, and protect the medical staff from attacks from the woman. I simply believe that in most cases such concerns can and should be addressed with less stringent measures.

T's points are valid concerns, but should be considered by the authorities making these decisions, but should not be the sole justification for such harsh restrictions on a woman enduring the most pain she will likely ever endure while depriving her of the opportunity to experience the greatest joy she will likely experience.

[Jonathan]

"This is a democracy."

Just wanted to point it out in a nice way before Barney blasts you, that this is a "Republic".

[Jonathan]

"An archangel could appear with new information from God Himself and it would not change Truth Teller's or blarney's opinion on anything. Don't you people know that by now? "

I tell you what, if an "archangel" appeared with a message directly from GOD, and the most important part of that message was about the shackling of prisoners during childbirth, it would definitely change my mind on alot of things, including this article.

LOL - has to be a guy's idea, no mother would even sugggest that one

[inka1941]

To the person who wrote that you forget to breath during labor I can only say, and I say this with some authority, balderdash!!! I am more concerned with the safety of those delivering the baby than the mothers comfort. I say keep her shackled. People who are in prison are there for a reason, they are getting free room and board, health care and even legal aid. I do not feel sorry for them and don't feel the need to unshackle them to make it easier for them to give birth. I am so sick of the liberals in this country looking for a new cause, however obscure, to attach to. They need to abide by the laws like the rest of then we don't have to have there dumb questions in forums such as this.

stupid people shouldn't breed

[ms]

inka1941 said, "People who are in prison are there for a reason, they are getting free room and board, health care and even legal aid."

This statement may be true in some circumstances, but is not true in most. Prisoners often are assessed a per diem that will result in them owing the government for the rest of their lives for their incarceration time...especially if the time is county time. Furthermore, they are assessed a fee for medical care and legal aid, although at reduced rates. The rates are adjusted for the rate of pay they receive for the slave labor they provide while incarcerated. The imposition of the per diem is subject to judicial discretion.

[jessilizzi]

We're talking about a woman who committed credit card fraud in this particular case & I don't think being shackled during labor really fits the crime! It's not like she was a murderer or anything - I think it should be considered on a case-by-case basis. Is the individual a threat to herself or others if 'loose' during labor? Seriously, not many women in labor are going to have escape on her mind during that time!!! Those that say otherwise probably haven't given birth.