About that 8-year-old murder suspect ...

This is the Arizona boy who's accused of killing his dad and a family friend. Prosecutors released a tape apparently showing the kid giving a confession. But the defense and child advocates note that he didn't have any adults on his side, wasn't read his Miranda right or given any other protections. Also, he's 8. Snip from the Republic:

Public airing of the confession prompted widespread criticism from juvenile advocates and justice-system experts who questioned why the boy was alone, and why the video was made public.

Former Arizona Attorney General Grant Woods said he believes the statement will be thrown out, and any evidence obtained exclusively as a result of it will also be dismissed.

The judge -- who whiffed on the first few attempts at a gag order -- is trying again.

Comments

[Quad Kings]

Something doesn't smell right here. An eight year-old shoots and kills two adults??? Then calmly discusses it with police and flip-flops???

Then the press jumps all over it and exploits the story for sensationalism ... shame on them!

[Old Joe]

Hey Quad. What is NOT sensational about an 8-year-old charge with double murder?

And when you say the "press" are you really talking about ALL news outlets ... or just the ones who go for the sensational angle on EVERY story? You know the ones I mean. Mostly cable and local TV news and the scandal rags.

[The Golfer]

No adult caregiver there to advise the 8 yr old?

Give me 20 minutes with an 8 yr old like that and I will have them confess to killing JFK.

No telling what was said to the boy BEFORE the cameras started rolling.

A rush to judgment be the po-po.

[Truth Teller]

Just trying to protect and to serve...A New World Order.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

Quad Kings, I think you're missing a big SMELLEPHANT in the room: The sheriff's office.

No Miranda waiver (even if an 8-year-old could understand its implications,) no child advocate present and a confession from an 8-year-old? Interrogation taped and released to the press? This thing REEKS.

The press? Easy to blame. But this is the type of story that always generates press. The Caylee Anthony, Natalie Holloway and Jennifer Wilbanks cases are other examples.

[Sasquach]

We just got done going over custodial interrogations in my Crim. Procedure class the other day, and there's no way this confesson will make it to court.

[Jellybean]

Golfer is exactly right. And what's worse, is that he may have internalized his confession - meaning that the boy himself comes to really believe he did it.
There's a ton of literature on this - Richard Ofshe, Elizabeth Loftus, Underwager/Wakefield.
Hey, they could just read their own handbook! It's all in "The Practical Aspects of Interview and Interrogation".
Way to NOT take care of a traumatized kid.

[Quad Kings]

I have no problem with the press reporting a sensational story (yes, this is one). My issue is with the exploitation. The press will beat this horse well beyond its death. They've already stooped to broadcasting the kid's face and dropping a boom mic in the detention center (both big no-nos). Most of the press corps are not reponsible journalists these days. They are a big part of the problem.

Sasquach, you in law school? The "confession" may or may not be admitted as evidence. There are different standards and rules for minors, under the quasi-criminal juvenile justice system where there are no juries. It adopts the doctrine of in loco parentis, Latin for "in the place of a parent," and ostensibly looks out for the child's best interests. That serves as justification for a lower burden of proof (below "beyond a reasonable doubt") and relaxed rules of evidence. Sometimes it's unfortunate. Sometimes it works to get a kid on the right path.

What chaps my ass is government employees (prosecutors and/or judges) who automatically believe they know what's best for a child, in a particular situation. Granted, there are some awful -- nay, dreadful -- parents (more and more these days); but assuming the state can provide better parenting in every case is incredibly arrogant.

In this case ... in which an eight year-old gets access to a loaded gun ... I'd say it sounds like there's some indication of bad parenting. But, on the other hand, it sounds like the kid is being set-up to take the fall. Bad guy shoots two adults then brainwashes kid to "confess." I'm not missing the Smellephant' (funny, by the way) ... it could be a sheriff's deputy (or office conspiracy).

It just stinks.

[Nina]

Where is this little boy's MoM? I sure would not of let them talk to him with a lawyer there, kids will say anything to get attention .It sure don't sound right to me. Who Know who really did the killing???? Sure do not need this all over TV, give the little guy a break. Nina

[Kelly]

The little boy wasn't initially brought in for interrogation - he was simply being questioned as a witness, then magically he confesses. So now they are acting like "it's not OUR fault he confessed, we were just asking him what he witnessed and he spit out that he did it." That's the angle they're trying to use. Apparently, if a child is a witness and discussing with authorities what he witnessed, he must not have to have an adult advocate present? I don't know. I feel like a child should have an advocate looking out for him/her best interests at all times, no matter what the circumstances are in which he is speaking with law enforcement/detectives/or the like.

[Kelly]

sorry, that should say....

I feel like a child should have an advocate looking out for his/her best interests at all times. Not him/her. That's going to bug me now. Damnit.

[Sasquach]

Quad, even though juvenile court criminal adjudications are not technically trials, the Supreme Court several years ago did state that the burden of proof is still beyond a reasonable doubt in those cases.

In addition, the standards for the admissibility of child confessions create tougher burdens on the police in the majority of situations. Because of the age, intelligence, and education levels of children, it is much easier to establish that they reasonably believe they were not free to leave during police interrogation (standard for determining whether the interrogation was "custodial"). In any custodial interrogation, Miranda holds that the police must advise the subject of their rights and may only interrogate upon a voluntary, knowing and intelligent waiver of those rights. Some, if not most, states require that a parent or guardian be present any time a juvenile suspect is questioned, whether or not they waived their rights. Considering this child was never Mirandized, and probably wouldn't have understood his rights even if he was, it wouldn't be that suprising if the confession got kicked, and any evidence discovered as a result of it got supressed.

[Sasquach]

Also, because the story states, "In a video that lasts more than an hour, the boy initially denies any role in the murders, but changes his story after detectives challenge his account," I have a hard time believing that the police were only questioning him as a witness and he suddenly blurted out a confession.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

Nina, I believe Mom and Dad were divorced, Dad had custody, Mom was not in the area. Mom is now in the area and will take the boy over Thanksgiving for a furlough.

[HmblDog]

I'm having trouble recalling where a successful homicide investigation and prosecution began with the release of a videotaped confession within hours of the report of the murder.
I wonder why they didn't instead choose to release a description of all of the physical evidence that would point to the identity of the killer.
Then again it could be the little boy is a criminal mastermind and has managed to cover his tracks. Or maybe he is confessing to protect the identity of the real killer. Maybe a playmate from school.
Must be a pretty good shot to nail 2 adults on 2 different floors of the house using a handgun.
Seriously, the prosecuting attorney for this jurisdiction needs to have a sit-down with the local law enforcement and determine if they need to request assistance from the nearest big city. These guys aren't looking to smart.

[Tom]

I think it's pretty clear that the kid did it. There will be enough forensic evidence that they won't need the confession. He'll be out when he's 21.

[mom]

The big question is why would an 8 year old boy commit a double homicide killing his father and "family friend" and how was he able to carry it out without a struggle?

[Usher Kareeshe]

The news media heard about the incident and got an Arizona judge to sign a subpoena ordering the police (Sheriff) to release anything and everything pertinent to the case.
The only part they didn’t show was the boy hollering “Hey Dude, that’s my head you’re hurting.”

[KC Brougham]

What's up with the dad and his "friend". Where was Mom?

[KC Brougham]

I think it's pretty clear that the kid did it. There will be enough forensic evidence that they won't need the confession.

How do you know?

[ebyrdstarr]

Tom, you say you think it's clear the kid did it. Why do you say that? The only evidence I have heard of, and I have read a lot about this case, is the confession. If that's all the evidence out there, I'd say we have no information about who did this because that confession seems about as valid as a confession by the kid that he shot Lincoln.

[ebyrdstarr]

Interesting update. The DA has filed a motion to dismiss the murder charge related to the father's death. Hmm...

[Tom K]

It would help if police at least showed some real interest in following the rules and protocols that they are supposed to follow.

[Parent]

8 year olds do not pick up guns and kill people. Not without a heck of a lot of provocation. There is so much more to this story than is being told, and I am glad the judge put a gag order (a little late) on the story. When all is said and done, there will be a lot more to be learned about what lead up to the murders.

[petr]

i don't understand why the crime scene wouldn't have enough evidence to either prove or disprove that an 8-year old was responsible.

bullet trajectories, sequence of events, anything that would scream 'there's no way an 8-year old did this' or vice versa.

if they can't find any reliable evidence at all, making it look like it was done by an expert, then i would think the 'confession' would be in the boy's favor. i mean if he's capable of pulling off a double-homicide without leaving a trace of evidence, is he going to be dumb enough to confess just because a cop goes '1..... 2.....'

It would help if police at least showed some real interest in following the rules and protocols that they are supposed to follow.

Yep, when in doubt, blame the cops. Its all their fault....

[justinw]

how young to you have to be to be tried as an adult . and why is the legal age 18 but they always want to try these kids as adults. having hard time believing this kid shot two men while they stoood there and was a kill shot. he would have had to take good aim not to just wound them I believe was 22? why was this man living there? the mother had just left after a visit. why should she automatically get custody when she wasnt involved, ? now theirs money involved