I tried so hard to write an authentic-sounding "Smokey & The Bandit" headline, but sadly, could not

From Herbert Spencer:

Driving on southbound 635 around 12:30 I spotted 5, count 'em 5 state revenue enhancement officers giving citations around the Metropolitan/635 area.  Three had victims pulled over and 2 others were on the on ramp clocking potential victims.

Since then they appear to have dispersed, but are still working the central/west Wyandotte area of 635 and I-70.  Note these are not our fine KCK police.  These are state cops validating the old adage that the poor pay more.

Comments

[Herbert Spencer]

I just read a headline that the state can't pay its bills and needs money to meet the payroll. How nice of them to come to Wyandotte County to raise the money (like we're not over taxed already). How about putting these weasels down in Leawood, or maybe pulling over the drunks in Mission Hills for a change?

I have seen them at this location in the past (though it's been quite awhile). They would stand on the overpass with radar with cars/bikes on the ramp ready to pounce. Thanks for the tip!

[JewwellsP]

You folks had better heed the Herbert warning, this is not a one time thing. You shall see more & more traffic patrol's. It isn't about safety, it is about just how much cash can be made.
Costs money to find a burgler, rapist or murderer. Police coined the term "crime pays" & they have proven over & over again that indeed it does.

[MichelleD]

revenue enhancement officers (REOs) - that's good.

I've seen more enforcement at that very location as well as up in North KC. I'm just waiting for a move to increase penalties for speeding in the name of "public safety".

[Johns]

Again, if you don't speed, you won't get pulled over. If you're all about saving money, there's a tip.

[Rhonda]

Drive the speed limit. Save lives and money as well as conserving our scarce natural resources.

[Herbert Spencer]

And who among us can't be pulled over at anytime? Examples in WYCO: 4 lane road around NASCAR, 40 MPH, 4 lane road connecting 7 highway to state street at 126th. When you turn off 7 the sign is right there on the corner where you'd never look for it. The next one? Way up over the hill, right next to where the cop parks. By the time you figure out what the speed limit is you're busted.

The simple fact is that the speed limits in so many locations are so ridiculous that we all violate the law (at least those of us who are in the country legally and have jobs) do.

Indeed, the easiest way to tell you're following an illegal in WYCO is if they're actually driving the speed limit.

I guarantee you there is not one person reading this who has not violated some BS traffic ordinance each time, everytime they've put their car in drive, and that includes you Mr Johns.

And again, I ask why these REOs aren't preying on the good citizens of Leawood, or better yet Missouri down on south 435 (like the KCMO cops do to Kansas citizens traveling I-70 in their wonderful community).

[Herbert Spencer]

Incidentally, I think the Kansas legislature has already suggested increasing traffic fines.

[Herbert Spencer]

Here's a poll. How many of you have seen a bigger road hazard created by an REO with his victim jacked up in a heavy traffic lane than what the "offender" would have ever been to begin with?

[Drew]

Herbert, how often do you think that State Troopers are dispatched to calls for service? You know, those unsolved burglaries et al that you becry? Oh, that's right, zero. They enforce traffic laws and work crashes. They are a secondary agency when it comes to calls for service.
More from you:
"And who among us can't be pulled over at anytime? Examples in WYCO: 4 lane road around NASCAR, 40 MPH, 4 lane road connecting 7 highway to state street at 126th. When you turn off 7 the sign is right there on the corner where you'd never look for it. The next one? Way up over the hill, right next to where the cop parks. By the time you figure out what the speed limit is you're busted."
- Well, when you get your driver license, it is presumed that you are 1) aware of existing laws, and 2) alert and competent enough to watch for posted traffic control devices. If you feel that burden is too great, I'm sure the states of KS and/or MO will gladly accept the voluntary rescission of your driving privileges.

"I guarantee you there is not one person reading this who has not violated some BS traffic ordinance each time, everytime they've put their car in drive, and that includes you Mr Johns."
You are correct. The difference is that we accept responsibility and recognize that we have violated the law. Again, see the above "presumed competence" section.

[Chuck Rizzo]

I admit that I'm an avid Speeder, about 5-10mph over on my daily commute. I've been cited a few times and I can say I haven't complained once, because I knew I was speeding and they gave me a ticket. IF you don't want a ticket for speeding don't speed. Simple as that. Sorry if you don't like it, but if your worried about getting a ticket don't do it.

[Chuck Rizzo]

Also to Herbert I drive 435 from 119th to 152 and then 152 over east a bit, and there are ALWAYS cops there and if you know the area I am talking about a lot of medium to higher end in come people live there. I actually see cops in the area where all the new 450k+ houses are going up and I see audi's and bmw's pulled over daily.

[Herbert Spencer]

So no matter how unreasonable bog brother is, you kiss his backside. Sorry, not in my DNA and no, I'm not going to walk either.

Always nice to hear from the state's apologists though. I wonder how many citations were written today out there from law abiding citizens who did absolutely nothing to threaten the health and safety of their fellow citizens, but who must now bear the burden in these harsh economic times of having to pay out yet another $200 to big brother.

Finally, thanks for the admission that these REOs have nothing to do with stopping real crime and are little more than thieves themselves preying on people have done nothing more than violate some completely capricious and arbitrary standard imposed by a revenue hungry state.

[Herbert Spencer]

Chuck, thanks, but I was being somewhat facetious. It does not make my day any brighter knowing they're stealing from the good folks of Johnson County also.

[Herbert Spencer]

Reading these responses I begin to understand why we now pay roughly half our income to the state without so much as a whimper.

Johnson County, not one, but two new forever taxes and you can guarantee more are on the way.

[Cops are Terrorists]

Drew is exactly that, an apologist for the REOs because he is one. There will be no admission of wrongdoing from those who perpetrate the harassment of the general public, only pathetic excuses.

[Drew]

Herbert, let's recap:

"So no matter how unreasonable bog brother is, you kiss his backside. Sorry, not in my DNA and no, I'm not going to walk either."
- That's okay. I'll continue to obey the laws. It's easier for some of us than others. I hope you pay on time, otherwise they issue those pesky arrest warrants that you probably aren't genetically predisposed to recognizing, either.

"Finally, thanks for the admission that these REOs have nothing to do with stopping real crime and are little more than thieves themselves preying on people have done nothing more than violate some completely capricious and arbitrary standard imposed by a revenue hungry state."
- Please re-read, re-read, and re-read however many times it takes you to understand. I said they were not primary call-takers. In KSHP or MSHP's primary list of duties, along with traffic enforcement, is crime prevention. This is easily and often effectuated through contact with drivers (now follow me here, they have to be stopped for a TRAFFIC VIOLATION first in order to be a contacted driver) who may have outstanding warrants and who may also be carrying stolen/illegal items in their vehicles. Again, how do we get there? Proactive law enforcement work, the penumbra under which traffic enforcement falls.
In fact, this is more commendable than exlusively reactive police work.

But sorry the criminal / law violator apologists don't get that. It's not in my DNA to purposely avail myself to the inevitable enforcement and punishment authority of the state. But then again, I choose not to willingly put myself in those positions. Cheerio!

And "capricious and arbitrary"? Please do better than that.

[Drew]

James, what is happening to my comments?

[THEvoiceinyourhead]

Herbie, what's your beef with Mission Hills? Seems to be a common theme in your comments.

[Herbert Spencer]

no big beef with Mission Hills. Leawood sucks, but I actually think Mission Hills is a neat area. It's just that we've been discussing one of its less than stellar residents in another thread and so it's on my mind in a very negative context.

No votes on the poll? So no one has ever seen one of these moronic REOs pull someone over in the middle of Metcalf during rush hour, or anything else of similar stupidity.

As for arbitrary and capricious, lets take a look at the two examples I gave above and add a couple. South loop around Nascar, 4 lanes, 40 MPH. State Ave past Nascar, 4 lanes, 50 MPH. Turn left on 126th off State, 4 lanes, 30 MPH. 110th Street South of Nascar, narrow 2 lanes with deer abounding, 45 Mph. I-70 in KCK 65 - 70 Mph. I-70 in KCMO 45 - 55 MPH. Anyone want to explain the pattern in that series of utter silliness?

Let me praise our KCK cops. If you get jacked up by a KCK cop, you were doing something stupid. You rarely see a KCK cop screwing up traffic to pull over some BS traffic citation.

But I have been jacked up by a Shawnee cop who was apparently engaging in one of those pro-active law enforcement events designed to enhance his racial profiling statistics. Instead of hassling a brother from WYCO and letting them go with no ticket, they hassled a white boy with WYCO plates and wrote no ticket.

This jerk followed me in my blind spot and almost caused an accident because they were freaking out the car in front of me and it was driving erratically. So they wait until it turns off and no one is around to witness their heroics and then they pull me over and when I ask why I get some BS that they were concerned that there might be an incident of road rage. With who!?!?!? No one else was around.

Which brings us back to Drew and pulling us all over because there's a one in a million shot we might on a cold day in hell we might have some kind of contraband on us. There is no question in my mind that the reason those 5 thieves were lined up down there on 635 was to protect me from Al Qaeda, the Columbian drug cartels and various other people who were clearly trying to pass through Wyandotte County as fast as they could. Please. The only concern down there was money so a state that we find out today can't pay its bills can fleece us for yet more money.

And while I'm at it, let me thank all of you law abiding citizens who ran interference for me by driving a crap load faster than I was going.

Sorry I'm not being more articulate, but a thief is a thief and the fact they're wearing a badge doesn't make it right. I saw a column several years ago that was really great on the subject that I wish I'd saved, but hey, bottom line is that if you folks like giving the government all of your money and having to be nervous everytime you get behind the wheel (that or crawl along like you were in a covered wagon), be my guest. It is a democracy, I think.

[Jonathan]

"Sorry, not in my DNA and no, I'm not going to walk either."

Herbert, We in the real world call those who repeatedly break the law and have no respect for ANY laws because they have something in YOUR head against the man, A CRIMINAL! I know that you repeatedly stick up for them and defend them, but I personally don't like CRIMINALS! Same goes for the guy guy who should change his name to IDIOTS ARE TERRORISTS and turn himself into Guantanamo Bay.

[Drew]

Herbert (since I fancy talking to walls):

Three very attractive options:

1. Write your legislator and try to get traffic violations either decriminalized or repealed. I wish you luck.

2. I know this sounds crazy, but OBEY TRAFFIC LAWS.

3. Move elsewhere.

Shame on me for feeding the troll.

[Drew]

Sorry, Herb. That last post was too antagonistic. Olive branch?

[Herbert Spencer]

Olive branch gladly accepted. These are ideas, after all.

As for being a criminal and supporting criminals, Jonathon. I'm not sure what you've been reading, but it wasn't anything I wrote.

There is a vast, vast difference between arbitrary traffic laws and crimes against persons.

Indeed, part of my problem with law enforcement is that we;re spending too much time hassling law-abiding citizens and not enough time giving grief to the kind of folks who are a distraction to our quality of life.

One of the reasons I admire our KCK cops is that they've figured out the difference and their time is focused on our more important problems rather than hounding honest citizens.

[Lance]

Herbert Spencer, I think you are right on the money. The purpose of traffic laws has been completely lost over the decades. Today, enforcement of traffic laws is about nothing more than revenue. Want proof? Just call the court clerk next time you get a ticket in Kansas and ask how you can keep a conviction off your record. Double the fine and presto! Drew wants to be able to sleep at night so he would like us to believe that LEOs only ticket unsafe drivers. I know better, Drew.

[Jonathan]

Herbert -
"There is a vast, vast difference between arbitrary traffic laws and crimes against persons. "

Do you consider all traffic laws arbitrary, or just certain ones? Your alternative is that people should be able to drive whatever speed they wish and however they like? What about DUI? Are the laws just arbitrary, until AFTER someone else is injured by that persons actions, but only AFTER they become real and meaningful? You are also talking about a VAST difference between traffic patrol officers and detectives, K9s units, police helicoptor pilots, etc. They all have different responsibilities, and the responsibility of traffic enforcement, is to enforce traffic laws.

"Indeed, part of my problem with law enforcement is that we;re spending too much time hassling law-abiding citizens and not enough time giving grief to the kind of folks who are a distraction to our quality of life."

OK, so pulling over speeders (breaking the law) is hassling law-abiding citizens? How do you propose LEOs spend more time "giving grief to the kind of folks who are a distraction to our quality of life."? Just driving around looking for "felony" looking folks? Something that sounds like profiling keeps popping up in my head....

"One of the reasons I admire our KCK cops is that they've figured out the difference and their time is focused on our more important problems rather than hounding honest citizens."

Just to fuel my curiousity, what exactly are your KCK cops doing that focuses their time on more important problems that causes you to admire them?

[Jonathan]

Lance - So if they don't allow people to plead out of their tickts they are ruining their lives over an "arbitrary law", but if they let them pay twice the fine and get out of the ticket, they are undermining the reason behind the law in the first place? So what exactly is the right answer, don't enforce laws? They allow people to plea to deals all kinds of crimes, not just traffic laws. Does that mean we should not enforce any laws at all, or just that we should stop agreeing to plea deals with these people and lock them ALL up?

[Herbert Spencer]

You equate speeders with criminals? And yet you want me to waste time trying to explain nuances to you. I don't think so.

The key terms here are discernment and discretion. I think our KCK cops use their discretion far more wisely than perhaps officers in other jurisdictions are allowed.

I don't know whether it's the fact that they're unionized, or just given more latitude, but I guarantee you that when I see a KCK cop I don't look to see if my wallet is still there.

The opposite occurs when I see a state cop. I don't tend to drive inappropriately, but when I see those guys, as I did today, all I can think is thief. Watching them slither into traffic is like watching a crocodile slither into a river when a herd of animals is crossing. There's no logic to who the croc kills, it's just the one in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Again, discretion is the key. Is the driver endangering others? Strange how these laws are enforced at times that are the inverse of when speeding might be the most dangerous.

Rush hour, people are flying by bumper-to-bumper without a cop in sight, but later after things calm down and there's more room and less danger, there they are slithering into traffic, picking off victims who are in no way endangering anyone.

Again, it's not that our KCK cops don't bust people for traffic offenses, it's just that, from experience, I tend to trust their discretion more than I do others in communities that I know, again, from experience, from watching them day in and day out sit there and pick off people who are no danger to anyone.

When I drive down K-7 and see the cop sitting under the overpass at Shawnee Mission I blink my headlights the rest of the way down the highway to warn my fellow citizens that there is danger to their pocketbook ahead. If they're drunk I suspect they'll be like you and miss the nuance and still get caught.

[Drew]

And Jonathan says, WHAMMY!

[Tony Rizzo]

Drew: Sorry for the delay, just saw your question about your comments. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what you mean. I haven't taken any down, and there weren't any of yours stuck in the spam filter.

[Herbert Spencer]

I don't get it. Is that our non sequitor for the day?

You guys can ignore this thread all you want, but law enforcement depends on cooperation from the community and if people don't trust you and perceive you to be the enemy, that can't be a good thing.

I'm basically a law and order type, but traffic cops are a whole different issue. I hate to see guys who want to serve their communities being used for revenue enhancement. I don't think it serves any of us well to see our peace officers in a bad light.

Fortunately for us in Wyandotte it's not an issue as long as the State Troopers stay out of town. If I never saw one in the county I could care less. I live in WYCO and I don't want you around. Our local guys are doing just fine without you.

[Herbert Spencer]

James, it's probably the same problem I've been having. Comments don't post immediately, but if you refresh your browser they do appear.

[Drew]

Yeah, I think that's what it was, HS, except I refreshed a bunch of times (please no feminine hygiene jokes) and it kept hiding. Besides, I've been spamming the crap out of you. I'm surprised it didn't get caught.

But thanks anyway.

[Tony Rizzo]

Sorry about that, guys. Usually refreshing will cause the comment to appear. I think it's because of some glitch on Typepad's server.

[Herbert Spencer]

It's gotten better. For awhile it was pretty bad and I too had to refresh multiple times to get the comment to appear.

[Herbert Spencer]

Back to the insults. Drew, I believe it's your turn since your non sequitor doesn't count. If there was a whammy from Jonathon, I missed it. Indeed, Jonathon doesn't seem to even grasp what we're talking about so it's up to you to carry the ball for your team.

[Drew]

That's it! From now on, I'm only going to post one-sided, half-thought comments on here in protest! Oh, wait...nevermind.

[Herbert Spencer]

It's too late for humor. I'm much too tired to giggle, although that did cough up a chortle.

[Herbert Spencer]

OK, two giggles and a chortle, but that's all you get.

[Lance]

"So what exactly is the right answer, don't enforce laws? They allow people to plea to deals all kinds of crimes, not just traffic laws. Does that mean we should not enforce any laws at all, or just that we should stop agreeing to plea deals with these people and lock them ALL up?"

My point was that enforcement of traffic laws is primarily about revenue. Your questions broaden the discussion, but I'll bite: Only enforce laws prohibiting violence, fraud, and other dishonesty like theft. As far as traffic law enforcement, there should be a requirement that the ticketed driver actually endangered another person. That would be a good start.