UPDATE on Mohler sex-abuse case

Don Bradley has the full story, but here's the gist of it: The new charges are against Burrell Mohler Sr. and his four sons -- but not Mohler's brother from Florida. (I'm not sure about the others, but the Florida man was denied the charges. The others will be arraigned today -- Don's out there, so maybe we'll get to hear something from them.) Like the earlier reports, this accuser also says she was raped.

The Community of Christ church, meanwhile, is hosting a prayer vigil because of the charges tonight.

Meanwhile, KCTV has the search warrants and reports this. It's important to note, though: No charges of that stripe have been filed. And unless the authorities aren't telling us something, there's no body either.

UPDATE: Don has more information from the hearing this morning, including more detail about the allegations that KCTV was reporting. Several members of the extended family were there to support the Mohlers.

The Mohler case first came to light when a youngest of the women making the search warrant allegations came to police in August with suppressed memories of sexual abuse that led to 14 counts against her relatives.

Some abuse cases based on suppressed memories have led to complaints of over zealous therapists helping to recover stories that later prove to be untrue. In this case, however, the woman’s five siblings have all supported her allegations with even more of their own, adding 17 more charges, all along the same lines of sexual torment.

Comments

[Jellybean]

I saw on the news last night that they found DIRT under a concrete slab in the basement too. This thing is really going to heat up with that new evidence.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

These assholes (I'm sorry, James, but how else to describe it?) wouldn't know dirt if they ate it.

"Shananigans" is too polite for the reporting of this case. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT.

The next to last paragraph reads, "Burrell Mohler Sr.’s brother, Darrel Mohler of Florida, also is charged in the investigation that authorities say is producing alleged victims across the continent."

Has anyone considered that the accusations may be based on mass hysteria and psychotic babblings? Is anyone at the Star old enough to remember the child abuse/molestation/rape Satanic ritual cases of the '80s and '90s? Remember what happened? All the convictions, all the imprisonments, with practically all the convicted found to be innocent?

Fool you once, shame on them. Fool you twice, shame on you.

[Jellybean]

I missed that "across the continent thing". lol!

A big story like this hits the news, and group sessions of MPD patients across the country start injecting it into their "memories".

I feel like I should start a Q & A hotline so that people can call and ask questions about how this stuff works.

And what's Sid Willuns doing these days? He used to defend these things in the KC area. He once said there wasn't a repressed memory case he couldn't beat. Where is that guy?

[Drasil]

I've always found it strange in these cases when other "victims" seemingly crawl out of the woodwork to make accusations. Just saying.

[James Hart]

Jellybean: Sid Willens! He's quasi-retired now, though he occasionally finds a cause to champion. He's a very interesting guy. Sid is a big reason why KCPD has an office of citizen complaints.

Keith: I'm being very careful how I report this one. Maybe something happened, maybe it didn't. I would really like to hear more about what the authorities found during their searches.

[Jellybean]

Happens all of the time in repressed memory cases, Drasil. In fact - almost always.

[Jellybean]

James, they reported what they found last night:
A shard of glass, a unidentified bone fragment, half a credit card, and some broken eyeglasses. Plus, all of that dirt under the basement.

Wish I know how to contact the wife of the one married Mohler. I'd tell her to call Sid - he'd turn these cops on their ears.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

JB, Sid Willens is still around (he was in the Star this past summer) but I think he's at least semi-retired.

Here is an old article, including Willens and "recovered delusionsmemories."

[James Hart]

JB: And there was this from 5's report ...

A radar showed that a box-like object was buried underneath the basement floor. The home is no longer owned by Burrell E. Mohler Sr.

[Jellybean]

Yes James, so they dug up the slab and found dirt.
Thanks Keith! I know some of those people. I have Richard Ofshe's home phone# - and the entire court record on the Ramona case. Gary Ramona was vice-president of Mondavi wines until his daughter accused him. He was fired based on the allegations alone. That's why I don't drink Mondavi wines. It says the trial is "in progress" so that was written in the early 1990's. Ramona won $400K.

I THINK that Judith Herman has lost her license to practice - not sure though - I'll have to check my files.

[aqua]

I'm lighting my torch under this new found evidence.

though I'm still holding my pitchfork at the ready.

[rhonda]

There are so many reasons not to drink Mondavi wines.

[Searching]

I am going to have to go with Rhonda on this one.

[Jellybean]

See if any of you guys can find info on Larry Stegman and Joe Rickman from Metropolis IL. I assisted the defense in that case.
Same crappola. I'm watching the news one day and they're dragging these two away in cuffs. The words "repressed memories" were barely mumbled in the newscast - but I caught it.

[Riki]

The accusations are only going to get wilder from this point.

Ooh, they found a bone, half a credit card, some broken glasses...proof positive this all happened or just stuff that accumulates on inhabited property? Heck, I was digging around my dad's garden a couple of years ago & found one of my brother's toy soldiers that went AWOL 20 years ago....OMG, THE MOHLERS ABUSED ME TOO!!

I understand the cops have to investigate, but seriously, is there no one in that department who is willing to apply logic to the situation?

1692 all over again.

[Unbelievable]

Humm.. this gets more bizzare and intense as it goes forward. There are certain facets that seem plausible. Having the girls commit murder, or assist in the commission of it, could mute any protests by the girls in fear of gov't reprisals.

The largest factor here is the amount of time that has transpired. Also typically abuse such as these would have continued. It seems unlikely that they would have engaged in such depravity and then just quit.

There should be some more current evidence that would indicate such actions (past or present). Its also likely they would have taken photos or video of the crimes in question. Given the precieved propensity for these kinds of accusations there should be something physical within the households of these individuals.

Given the number of potential invidiuals involved there has to be some physical evidence to back things up. Too many people leaves room for a lot of loose ends.

It will be intresting to see how they pit family members against each other, if something is there I would think it would be easy enough to bring to the surface.

[Searching]

What does the Acts of Barbados have to do with this?

[Keith G. in P.V.]

Howdy, Drasil.

James, thank you. To me, this case reeks of publicity-hungry LEOs accepting any accusation at face value without even consideration of accuracy. And the media (not just the Star) has gone along with it. Barb Shelly drooled over it in Midwest Voices over the weekend. Mary Sanchez salivated yesterday in her (non-editorial) column. Since the local Mohlers have no lawyer, only LEO propaganda hits the news. There's no defendant or lawyer or accused to stand in front of the cameras. Does that mean critical thinking is no longer needed?

Admittedly, I'm harder on the Star because I expect more from the press than I do from TV.

Understand how short lived our memories are:
Crusading [Kern County / Bakersfield] California district attorney retires. Why would this be national news in hundreds of papers? Because this DA made his career with child molestation cases of the 1980s, putting more than two dozen men and women behind bars to serve decades-long sentences for abusing children. According to the AP,

Appellate judges now say most of those crimes never happened.

Still, generations of voters have embraced the crusading prosecutor’s tough-on-crime agenda in this blue-collar basin just a mountain range north of Los Angeles.

Witch hunts didn't end in 1693. They continue all the time. We only disown them when the harm and destruction have already been done.

[Jellybean]

Is the Star close to the Kempers? The Kemper's are all up the Repressed memory hiney. James Kemper's stepdaughter recovered repressed memories against her biological father. They used to come to our FMSF conferences to stir trouble - Like Mr. Philanthropist himself walking up to Elizabeth Loftus and calling her "scum".

[James Hart]

Keith: I just looked over Mary's column yesterday -- it was about journalism ethics, not the Mohlers. I'm not sure why you say she's "drooling."

[Jellybean]

Keith -Ted Gunderson led a lot of those investigations in the 1980's - including the McMartin Preschool investigation.
He's since been let go from the FBI for being a paranoid schizophrenic.
He still stirs it up though, mostly by going to little Sheriff's Offices and "assisting" with their investigations.
You may remember his name more from the accusations he made on Art Bell.

[Searching]

Maybe Keith was thinking about this case while reading it. and when he woke up this morning, he had a repressed memory about it?

[Man in a Mission]

Keith G. in P.V. -

I think the phrase is producing alleged victims across the continent refers to earlier reports that many of the alleged victims now live elsewhere. I recall one newscast that said one of the alleged victims was flying in from Canada, where he/she now lived to provide statements to the police, and that another was flying in from Utah. I think this is one of the reasons for the staggered filing of the charges against the Mohlers, they have heard from these alleged victims, but until they provide a sworn statement, information they may have provided can't be considered for filing charges.

Again, I remain agnostic about whether these men are guilty or not. I, like James, want to know more about what was found and removed from the farm, as well as if all of the alleged victims are claiming 'suppressed', 'repressed', or 'recovered' memories or if it is just the first victim to come forward. Many victims of sexual abuse live with the horror and trauma and not disclose the abuse to anyone for years, especially where the abuse occurs within a family. Rather than being six siblings all who saw the same therapist, etc. this could be a case of one victim suppressing her own memories of the event, then once she begins to talk, it breaks the wall of silence to allow others to begin to come forward and talk about the crimes committed against them.

Think of the pattern that was seen in the Catholic Church child sex scandal - men lived for decades without coming forward, but once a few did, it broke the barriers to allow others the strength and sense that they would finally be believed that had held them in shame and horror for years.

Just like it will take more evidence to convince me they are guilty - it will take more evidence to convince me that this is a case of mass hysteria/'recovered memory lies and that they are innocent as well. The accusations are wild and incredible in the scale and scope of what is alleged. However, who would have thought that the Catholic Church could cover up tens of thousands of cases of child rape by priests for decades? Just because something seems hard to believe, does not mean it is not true.

[Jellybean]

MiaM - Can you name ONE thing that you now know about the Mohlers that make you suspect they might be child abusers or murders. Other than accusations - ONE thing different about them that would make you think they COULD be, anymore than any other random guy.
If you can't, then why wouldn't you presume innocence?

[rhonda]

They belong to a cult-like church.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

They're Catholic, rhonda? (sarcasm off)

Searching and James, it was Sanchez' Monday (print edition) "Commentary" on page A4. (The ethics column appears in print today.) I'm paying big bucks for the print edition and sometimes quote the print date instead of the web posting.
You'd think the FBI had slipped her a couple of million dollars in return for a fawning column.

Perverts are online — but so is the FBI
Be grateful you will never know explicit details on the depravity allegedly in the Mohler clan. And that law enforcement is carefully trained to handle it for society.
I hesitate to use terms by which readers will readily identify this column’s impetus: a father and his four sons charged with, as a colleague penned, "a string of incestuous outrages allegedly committed more than a decade ago against children in their own family."
If the allegations are true, the Mohlers are merely masquerading as human beings. The titles to denote their relationships — father to son — don’t feel appropriate.

I thought Sanchez was old enough to remember the '80s and '90s. I thought, reading her August column about Michael Vick deserving a second chance (having been tried and convicted with real EVIDENCE and serving his sentence) she might even harbor a presumption of "innocent until PROVEN guilty" and have a concept of proof.
Stupid me.

Man in a Mission, you're correct when you say, refering to the priest scandals, that "men lived for decades without coming forward."

The Church itself was a repository of timely documentation of accusations. In many cases, the Church convinced families to remain silent, quashing a child's accusations, and keeping any accusation from being aired publicly. In other cases, LEOs and prosecutors carried accusations back to the Church for the Church to handle.

And I would be remiss if I didn't point out that EXACTLY the same thing has happened within almost EVERY faith and EVERY denomination in this country, not only the Catholic church.

[Jellybean]

I've been wondering if it's a church counselor doing the regression therapy anyway. Like in the Tom/Beth Rutherford case in Springfield.
Do you remember that one, Keith?

[Man in a Mission]

Jellybean -

I know that a search of the former family farm yielded a large volume of physical evidence, the nature of which the authorities have appropriately not released. I know that several siblings have made corroborative statements supporting the accusations. I know that only one of those accusations is suspect because it involves suppressed memories.

You are presuming that those suppressed memories came about as part of repressed/recovered memory therapy without any evidence whatsoever to support that presumption. You have presumed that the other five siblings not only suffer from this same delusion but have claimed that evidence will show they went to the same therapist.

Can you name ONE thing that you know, other than your experience years ago in another state in another case that makes you suspect that these victims are lying about the abuse?

The difference between my position and yours, is that I know I don't have enough information to say if they are guilty or not. You, based on the same paucity of evidence claim to know the facts even in the absence of evidence. Just as it is good to be skeptical of charges and accusations, so it is good not let that skepticism become so great that you are unwilling to accept evidence that contradicts your preconceived idea of what the facts are, or that you make statements that you are right about this or that when frankly you are only guessing based on limited releases of information from one side in the case.

[Sue]

keith g in pv has the only real thoughtful response here
what is it with you guys?

[Jellybean]

Miam - I don't have experience in only one other case. I did this almost exclusively for over 4 years. I have files on literally hundreds of similar cases.

[JonDana]

Does anyone have a link to the Search Warrant in this case that was released yesterday?

[Man in a Mission]

Jellybean -

Wonderful. However, if you have experience in hundreds of cases - then you understand (unless you only sought out those cases that support your pre-conceived conclusions) that what is true in one case is not true in all cases, and as yet you haven't produced one shred of evidence that any of the alleged victims recovered memories as the result of some flawed pseudo-therapy technique.

Rather than assume anything, I am simply observing and reserving my opinion in this case (and encouraging others to do the same) until we actually have enough information to make an informed conclusion based on facts rather than your or my speculation about what happened.

Just as some people falsely accused priests in the wake of the breaking of that horrible scandal does not invalidate the thousands of cases of those who were actually abused, likewise, the fact that you are aware of hundreds of false cases does not mean a priori that this case is also a false case.

Which is a long way of me saying you've got nothing but your own ideas to support your contention.

So perhaps instead of accusing these victims of being liars without evidence, you should wait and see, as I am, and will continue to do.

[Jellybean]

I don't accuse them of being liars. There is a huge difference between lying and having false memories. HUGE.

[Jellybean]

And yes, I worked exclusively with repressed memory cases - I did not work with just plain allegations of abuse. My experience is all involving repressed/recovered memories. They follow a pattern that's readily recognizable.

[Man in a Mission]

Keith G. in P.V. -

We don't know what evidence was recovered from the search of the property or what other evidence the police have. The only evidence they have released is the probable cause statements based on the accusations. Those accusations may prove to be false. However, just as we don't have enough evidence to conclude guilt, neither do we have enough evidence to conclude innocence.

Which is why I have repeatedly pointed out that the rational response is to remain open minded about whether they are guilty or innocent in the absence of conclusive knowledge.

Likewise, because a very real possibility exists that they are innocent is why I have suggested in other threads that in cases like this, the charges and accusations should be sealed until they go to trial to protect the reputations and rights of those who may be falsely accused of crimes that carry such a great stigma as in this case.

[Jellybean]

You make some good points.
You are correct in that we shouldn't start making the opposite mistake and not believing reports made by victims as a rule.

And I would SO SO SO love to see the charges and accusations in cases like this sealed until there's enough for trial.

But,there is no more reason to believe these guys are molesters/ murderers than to believe that you and I are. THAT'S where we start with the presumption of innocence. The more accusations without a shred of evidence, the more likely all accusations are false. Shouldn't we start looking at the thousands of similar cases to see how they turned out?

[cripjak]

There's a whole lot of "well if Fox News had it, Nancy Grace said it, KCTV had it and The Star printed it it must be true. Therefore I believe it and that settles it. Now excuse me I need some kool-aid." going on here. Next thing you know Katie Horner will make it part of her "the sky is falling" weather forecasts. "And now for your weekend weather and alledged molestation forecast." Let the case play out. If this was in Bu Fu North Dakota nobody here would be so worked up.

[Man in a Mission]

Jellybean -

You say you are only accusing them of having false memories. What evidence, other than your own opinion do you have that the other five siblings have sought any kind of therapy, let along therapy that would have led to these false memories. Only in the case of the initial reporting individual is there any suggestion of suppressed, repressed, or recovered memories, and no mention that her recollection of those memories came about as the result of therapy.

That does not seem to me to be enough to doubt the memories or accusations of the other 5 alleged victims or the accusations of the 7th alleged victim who is not related to the Mohlers, or the 10 year-old affidavits claiming a history and pattern of abuse filed in a child custody case that led to Burrell Edward Mohler, Jr. and his then wife losing custody of his stepson (her son) and the boy's biological father being awarded sole custody.

[cripjak]

That's right. Have another vigil. They work wonders. Look how well they've worked with the KCMO inner-city murders. Have some Kool-Aid.

[Jellybean]

If the other accuser's statements are regular memories rather than repressed - why weren't they used for the Probable Cause to arrest?

[Jellybean]

Everybody's been so shocked and suprised at every new revelation - actually, it's all very trite stuff for RM accusations. I'm only shocked and stunned that they haven't reported eating any of the babies yet.
Wait for it...

[Keith G. in P.V.]

Jellybean, was that the AoG case where the raped daughter had a coathanger abortion while maintaining her virginity?

MiaM writes:

"The only evidence they have released is the probable cause statements based on the accusations. Those accusations may prove to be false. However, just as we don't have enough evidence to conclude guilt, neither do we have enough evidence to conclude innocence."

I understand where you're coming from, MiaM. In and of itself, you're correct, but my point is that the consequences of the bare accusations are being ignored.
And if the charges prove false, what happens to the 7 men perp walked in orange jumpsuits, hauled into court, their names spread literally across the country? Aside from any legal bills they may have to pay, property they may have to sell to cover legal expenses, reputations besmirched and for the rest of their life remembered not for their release or aquittal, but their arrest?

KCTV5, the local bottomfeeder, hurries to publicize the forced murder accusation. This is in addition to the revelation that police found dirt under the concrete basement floor. (I saw the same thing at 41st & Southwest Trafficway yesterday afternoon...dirt under concrete and asphalt. Is that where Fatman is buried?)

Larry Kidd was arrested then released in less than 24 hours when it turned out he knew one of the accusers, not one of the accused. Of course, his picture was shown nation-wide in an orange jumpsuit.

Read the Mo. man was wrongly jailed for 8 months thread and the [Kern County] Kids' testimony sent innocent people to prison threads on CSKC today. The Missouri prosecutor says the case was handled properly...8 months in jail for an innocent man cleared by DNA of a rape charge. The Kern County D.A. says his people did nothing wrong...why would a prosecutor care if the kids were coached to invent tales and convicted eventually proven innocent? He got his convictions and it looked good enough on the ol' scorecard to get re-elected 6 times.

Sorry, the Mohler case absolutely REEKS of BULLSHIT.

[KC Cicero]

Looks like Lafayette Count is about 25 years behind finding out that "recovered memory" is voodoo science.

Perhaps the prosecutor should have waited until some of those messsages in jars turned up. Or the missing bodies. Or something like actual evidence.

Problem is that -- having filed serious charges based on no actual evidence -- it is hard to back down. On the contrary -- like the Salem witches -- the Lafayette Pederasts will keep growing in number and scope.

Consider this: You are totally innocent, trying to defend yourself against claims that you committed a crime a quarter-century ago for which you might end up spending your life in prison -- based solely on claims that the alleged victims say they "forgot" for 20+ years. Kafkaesque.

This is NOT like the Catholic priest scandals, where victims said they did not come forward because of shame or embarrassment or fear of disbelief.

The problem with repressed memory is that it starts by assuming that there is something there that caused a "symptom", and that the very absence of any memory of abuse is the evidence that abuse must have happened -- all one need do is "lead" to finding it. Tell someone that their problem is probably caused by a long-ago incident of being frightened by horses, and they will begin to construct memories of that day on the farm the horse threw them -- even if no such thing actually happened. They are not lying, They have constructed memories to conform with belief -- a very common occurance. That is what is so insidious -- and one reason why we used to have statutes of limitations.

[Man in a Mission]

Jellybean -

The only thing more shocking than the increased luridness of the accusations is the increased luridness of what you say the accusations are going to be. So far the only thing you have been right about is that the 6 initial victims were siblings.

The other siblings' corroboration was obtained prior to the decision to file the initial charges based upon the first [reporting] victim's accusations. Probable cause statements and new charges have been filed based on the subsequent accusations, made in affidavit form (which requires the investigators and prosecutors to meet in person with the victims, some of which live across the continent) as those victims have returned to the Kansas City area and met with investigators and prosecutors.

You still haven't managed to address the accusations made in affidavits filed 10 years ago in a child custody case involving a man whose ex-wife later married Burrell Edward Mohler, Jr. who was able to obtain sole custody of his then 7 year-old son based upon the allegations of sexual abuse of children.

What seems shocking to me is that no one saw fit to follow up on those accusations 10 years ago.

[www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1020137577]

I'm waiting for more details... and as Man in a Mission will tell you, I'm usually quick to hop on the "we hate child molesters!" bandwagon... (must be my having young children that gives me the knee-jerk.)

MiaM's posting has been dead on though, there's really not enough to say either way yet. I'm really in line with his stuff here, and I'm usually not...

Jellybean, you seem to have an agenda that you're pushing, and you're determined that this case fits your slot, without having any real reason to think that. It could very well end up going your way, but it could also very well end up not, and then you'd be kicking yourself for defending what could end up being a bunch of cultish weirdo religious whackjob child molesters.

:-)

[Jellybean]

Why yes it was, Keith! I just posted about it on the front page thread too - in response to somebody complaining that the Church hasn't screamed "guilty" yet.
For two years, Beth Rutherford was completely convinced of her "memories" of brutal rapes and two coat hanger abortions -until she went to a routine Ob/gyn visit. Turns out she was a virgin.
They sued the Assemblies of God Church, but settled for just 1M because they don't want to hurt the church. They used the money to produce a dvd on the dangers of regression therapies. They also do a lot of work with the FMSF. They're very nice people.

[Jellybean]

No, Miam - I said it was a recovered memory case before that was reported. I also said they would all be related to the people they've accused before that was reported. I then said that the allegations would get more and more bizarre but that no physical evidence would be found.
So far, I'm doing pretty well in my predictions.

[Jellybean]

And as far as any accusations in a child custody battle - I addressed that by saying that I ONLY deal with repressed memory cases. The guy could be a real jerk, I don't know. I won't venture a guess about that.

[Man in a Mission]

Jellybean -

I don't want to argue with you. However, you also said that it would turn out that all the siblings shared the same therapist, etc. As to the statement of it being a recovered memory case, when you made that prediction you did so after they had released the information that the initial charges were based on the suppressed memories of one of the victims. You even criticized the authorities for not 'getting their language straight'.

Again, how do you account for the accusations 10 years ago in your scenario?

BTW, I'm not saying you are wrong and that this won't turn out to be some weird recovered memory case, but that we seem to have some evidence that suggests it is not, that seems to corroborate the accusations, and that just as we should be skeptical about calling them guilty, so we should be skeptical about calling them innocent.

Also, I'm presuming Danny F. Barnes is the dfbarnes I usually end up debating in the threads about sex offender registries, housing restriction/exile laws, and other threads about less sensational and lurid accusations of sexual abuse of children, etc. If that is who he is, then he is usually a "hang 'em quick but make 'em suffer" kind of guy. I hope his reasonableness isn't restrained to this case.

[www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1020137577]

Yeah, same guy... I somehow made this thing link my TypePad and Facebook, and I can't find the "undo."