Couple arrested for refusing to tip?

In Bethlehem, Pa., a couple was arrested because they refused to pay an 18 percent gratuity for their group because, they say, the service was terrible. (It's one of those places where, if your group is big enough, you're automatically required to pay a tip.) They agreed to pay everything but the tip. The charge is theft, though the TV report says it's doubtful the charges will hold up.

The owner admitted that the group waited unusually long for their food, but said the pub was extremely busy that night. He said managers offered to comp the food, a claim the couple denies ever happened.

Hat Tip: Many thanks, T-Bone!

Comments

[Ralfred]

When I go to a restaurant and don't receive something, I don't pay for it. If I don't get service, I don't pay for it either.

[River Rat]

Charged with theft for not tipping what next, charged for leaving without washing dish's and leaving the scene of a crime.

[Drasil]

Was it listed on the menu as part of the price? No. It's not theft - it's extortion.

[Christina]

It was a group of 6, I believe and it's listed on the menu for most places for that, but it is still rarely enforced if there are any problems. Why would they offer to comp the food (hundreds of dollars) but not comp the tip?? Crazy.. Terrible press for the restaurant.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

You'll see it on many menus, and you're usually reminded when you reserve for or enter with a large party.

I've seen all sorts of people use all sorts of excuses not to tip. Some don't tip on tax (saves 6-10% of the tip.) Some leave little cards saying they believe tipping is demeaning to servers or religious tracts promoting their faith as worth more than a tip. In other words, tell your server to starve but be proud.

They're often the same people who will go back to the same restaurant over and over, as long as they can eat 90% of their meal, then complain about the quality to get a discount or freebie.

In short, they're generally Cheapass bastards who should be required to wear a scarlet C on their forehead.

And Ralfred, do you want service, or do you just want your ass kissed?

[Drasil]

I don't want you all thinking I'm a piker, because all of the restaurants that my wife and I frequent have the servers fighting to wait on us because we tip extremely well. However, that said, it's rare, but I have refused to leave tips before for horrible service. Is that theft, even though I've paid the bill for the food? Although, come to think of it, I generally leave at least a penny for the server just to show my contempt for their service.

Who cares if they have a 'policy' for large parties? Does that make it okay to provide bad service, because you know you're going to be tipped anyway?

[inetmail2003]

Last weekend a few friends, my wife and son decided to go out to dinner in St. Joseph. The hostess initially wanted to put us in 2 side by side booths. I asked her to move a couple of tables toghether and we moved to that section. I think that may have messed up who was supposed to wait on us. Eventually a young girl came by and asked about drinks. As we had been sitting for a while we also gave her our food order at the same time. She eventually brought out drinks out but the food took a long time. When the food did arrive 1 meal was missing some stuff, 1 had stuff that she was specifically told not to include and a third meal was actually the wrong menu item. The poor waitress looked horrified, she said that it was only her 4th night working. Later on the manager stopped by and asked how things were. I told him of the issues and he appologized. Later he personally brought the check and had deducted a significant portion. The young girl was with him when he brought it. I told her to relax and that we were all young and new at stuff once and that she would get it. I told her I was leaving a 20 dollar tip and that she would be ok. Her whole face lit up. I told the manager I was going to spend the money on the meal anyway, so I gave it to her. I saw that girl through the window as I left showing my credit card ticket with the tip to the other waitresses as I walked out to leave. The smile on her face was easily worth 20 bucks.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

Who cares if they have a policy...? I'd love to be your customer. I could come into your place and set my own price.

[Marc]

I think that restaurants need to stand behind their staff. It should be treated as "labor." I can't demand that the labor be taken off at a service station just because it took them a long time to change my tire. I can't remove demand a discount on my teeth cleaning just because the dental assistant (paid a portion of that bill) was rude according to my hearsay testimony.

The problem is that there are abusers out there that don't believe in tipping or they think they should only pay 10% or less. Who protects the waiter when he gets screwed? If the service is bad, then they need to be fired. The guy at AutoZone doesn't go home without pay. If he gets fired, he still gets paid for the work he provided.

There needs to be tough laws on the books for waitstaff. It's also easier and more money to work banquets and catering events. Waiting on individuals is much harder; therefore, I suggest everyone do that instead of waiting tables. There needs to be a waiter strike. The industry needs a leader that can stand up for change.

[Lynn]

The name of the place was Lehigh Pub. It is absolutely ridiculous that these people were arrested for not leaving a tip. If Bethlehem, PA has such little crime that the police have time to arrest people for not leaving tips then maybe I'll move there. Although I don't think I'll go to this particular restaurant.

[Marc]

I would visit this restaurant in a heartbeat for standing behind the people that make them. There are several abusers out there, and the customer is not always right.

I think those that refuse to eat there over this incident are those that are mad about it. And who would be mad? People that don't tip? Well, there should be a party for the waitstaff then! But the war is not won yet.

There are no lobby groups representing the waiters. There needs to be better labor laws. I hope that one a leader arises and organizes a nation-wide strike, just as teachers do. Just like there was a walk-out of Mexican workers one day to show those what life would be like if they go what they wanted -- deportation.

I think the hearsay testimony of these patrons should be given little weight. We have not heard the restaurant's side of the story, and they have not been cross-examined by competent council. I think its time that this "option" to pay is challenged. Furthermore, it *WAS* most definately stated on the menu and receit with no ambiguity that the gratuity was included.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

Good for you inetmail2003 and Marc. You understand that there is an implied contract when you enter a restaurant. We all SHOULD expect to pay a significant amount in addition to the menu price and tax.

If you don't want and expect to pay for service, go to McDonalds (which will still have a smiling, polite employee greet you, take your order, take your money and fill your order.) You can find your own table, serve yourself, get your own drink, make sure you pick up a straw and napkins.That's certainly worth saving 44 cents on a $2 meal. If you forget to pick up catsup, you can cut your own tip.

And when you finish, you can bus your own table, bend over and kiss your own arse for your almost perfect service and have more jingle in your pocket. Don't forget to drop a dime in the trash can (the reduced tip to yourself for not remembering the catsup.)

[kbp]

"The owner ...managers offered to comp the food..."

That's BS. If they were going to comp something like a $200 ticket, why would they call the police over a $36 (18%) tip when the customers paid for the food?

[Keith G. in P.V.]

Because, kbp, while the customer is always right, he or she is also sometimes wrong and acting like a two-year-old on a tantrum or just a general idiot.

[KC Cicero]

What part of "gratuity" is so hard to understand? The mere fact that a restaturant has a policy of adding in a "gratuity" does not make it part of the tab.

I tend to overtip, but then I'm a liberal -- and I recognize that waitstaff seldom get AIG size bonuses to support their kids. And "bad service" is often not the waiter's fault.

But, I sincerely hope the restaurant and the cops both get seriously sued over this. If the manager was so concerned, he could have comped the bill down so that the tip was paid. Don't like those customers? Tell them to not come back. Having you customers arrested is NOT a legal option. And the cops? They let this guy have a gun?

Focusing the tiny brains of managers & cops like these are what civil suits and punitive damages are for.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

I can't agree, KC Cicero. If the menu says "A gratuity of 18% will be added for all parties of 6 or more" expect to get nailed for another 18% on your tab for the wait staff. You could substitute the word "fee" or "bribe" or "vigorish" or "surcharge" for "gratuity", and the meaning is still obvious and still the same.

If you object, I'd think you'd be smart enough to settle the question before ordering.

Except for maybe lawyers. Or doctors. They're the people who can botch something but still send you a bill. Then send you another bill for fixing it.

[BadLiberal]

KeithG, pull your head out of your a$$. It does not matter what the menu says, a tip is a TIP, not a cost, NOT an obligation. All of your griping about cheapasses with scarlet Cs and such don't excuse the fact that these people were ARRESTED for refusing to pay a TIP for service NOT RECEIVED. I don't want to hear it about "menu says", "implied contract", etc etc yappa yappa. The "contract" is supposed to work both ways: if you pay an alleged "madatory gratuity" [anyone else recognize the oxymoron?} of 18%, then you are supposed to get "compulsory" excellent service. No service? No gratuity. Simple. Stay home if you don't like it, you say? Stay out of the restaurant business if you're going to have your customers arrested for refusing "mandatory" gratuities when you didn't live up to YOUR end of the bargain, I say. The couple PAID the price of the meal - and the bartender TOOK IT before calling the cops! Contract ends, that's their legal obligation. They didn't pay for excellent service, as they received no such service, regardless of how busy the restaurant was. That's their legal RIGHT, regardless of what it says "on the menu". 18% = you'd better live up to it.

And Marc, this is not a "labor" issue, stop turning this into a labor strike. Sorry, you're just plain wrong here.

Look, folks, I don't like short-changing servers, and I usually leave a tip even when I do get lousy service. But arresting someone for "theft" because they don't leave a tip? Read after me: TIPS ARE NOT ENTITLEMENTS! That's why they're called TIPS (acronym for "To Insure Prompt Service"). Grow up.

[sickoftheidiots]

First of all, a unilateral addition to the menu that "gratuity" will be added does not an implied contract make.

Second of all, even if there were a contract, one party's failure to abide by it's obligations under a contract, (in this case deliver even barely adequate service)ends the other party's obligations under that contract cease. That's basic, Restatement of Contracts, 2d., well settled law. Simply put, if you don't perform your obligations under a contract, the other party doesn't have to perform them.

Lastly, Marc, and whoever else used it before, these folks' testimony and statements as to what happened at the restaurant is NOT hearsay. It is direct evidence. They were there and they are reciting what they observed.

If you are going to use legal terminology, please take a few minutes to learn what it means.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

BadLiberal, you write "It does not matter what the menu says" and tell me MY head is up my ass? Are you a shyster? That's shyster thinking...everything is negociable and what is written is subject to every idiot's interpretation.

I supose that if the sign says "No smoking" it doesn't apply to you. The "No Firearms" probably wouldn't apply to you, either.

I want to try that at your business.

sickoftheidiots, where did you get your law degree?

[Anon]

This whole situation seems simple to and easily settled without delving into contract law as well. Tip waiters/waitresses according to their service. If they do their job well, pay them well. If they don't do their job...don't pay them. It's too bad that waiter's don't have a fixed salary, but customer's aren't obligated to suffer for that. That's an issue for restaurant managment and their employees to work out together.

[BrianVincent]

The tip is part of the bill; and when you have a large party, the built-in tip is part of the bill as much as the food bill is.

[Marc]

Badliberal, that's fine. Direct testimony or not, it's still an alleged account of what happened. What is the other side of the story?

Do waiters take the job expecting to get stiffed? What happens if everyone who walks in says they don't want to tip what's "not mandatory?" The waiter has to pay for all of them? It's mandatory for the waiter to pay out the bussboys, bartender, and sometimes the hostess, based on their sales and not their tips (or lack thereof).

It's clearly unethical to stiff the waiters. Furthermore, why is the cook not getting his hourly pay docked? Who was it at fault here? Was it the cook's fault for not getting the food out on time? The manager's fault for not staffing the floor properly? The bartender's fault for not getting drinks out fast enough? Did any of them see their pay cut over this incident?

No. They didn't. The laws need to be rewritten because it is a labor issue. The waiter is obviously not there expecting $2.13 per hour. I cannot also give direct testimony of slow service on a tire change and then scratch off the labor part of a bill at Pepboys just because of my direct testimony. Why is that mandatory? It's a service, is it not?

If somebody is givign bad service, then that mgmt. should get rid of that person, just as they shoudl get rid of the guy who changes my tire in a "slow" time phramed based on what I define as "slow" regardless of how busy they are, right?

Laws get changed yearly, and this is another case of bad laws that are not protecting the waitstaff. Who is representing the waiter?

[Bohica]

I have always understood that TIPS means "To Insure Prompt Service".

I usually tip 20% or more... since my mom was a waitress. However, I don't care how good the service is, if I am "made" to pay for a tip, then they will get that and no more! I feel it is my discretion to decide how my service was.

With a waiter or waitress knowing that they automatically get 18%, they can just sit back and not refill your coffee or water, not bring steak sauce, etc. Why should they? They're going to get their 18%!!

[Marvin]

inetmail2003,

Major props to you. Most people think that a night of bad service is some personal affront, when it might be honest errors.

[sickoftheidiots]

Keith in PV. I read your posts frequently and, ordinarily I agree with you on most topics. On this one, however, you're simply flat wrong.

It's not a matter of should they have tipped, is it fair that waiters get stiffed sometimes or, even, maybe they should make more than $2.50 and hour.

Whatever you and/or Marc believe is fair, tips are not obligatory. Your analysis of the alleged contractual elements of the matter are also flawed.

If the sign says "no smoking" and you light up you should/would get kicked out. If the sign says "no firearms" and you walk in packing you should/would be kicked out. Apples and oranges to the current discussion.

To answer your question, though I imagine it was simply a dig, more than an actual query, I received my law degree from UMKC.

FYI- I always tip personally, and, usually overtip. I tended bar my first 1 1/2 years of law school. The only time I don't, or even stray below 20% is if the waiter is obviously not trying, which doesn't happen very often. Subpar service is one thing. There is no need to punish inexperience, so long as they are doing their best. But, when service is crap because they're not even making the effort, getting stiffed is what they deserve.

[Marc]

That is a myth that tip is an acronym to ensure prompt service. It's a slang term, and it originated centuries prior to the Revolutionary war, and not even in the US. It has never had a legal defintion as such.

In Europe, the gratuity is also on the check in most places as I understand it. I used to wait tables in fine dining for several years in my past. I'm a court reporter now, and I can tell you that waiting table is the hardest work.

The higher you go up in the price of the menu, the more sophisticated the customer becomes. There is a direct correlation between intelligence and one's willingness to pay for a service that is not required by law. It usually the ignorant that don't want to pay if you want to play the probabilities, and I'd bet on the guy with the suit every time.

I would always prefer to work banquets. That's where most of the money is, and it is MANDATORY that gratuity WILL be paid. It's a written contract with the banquet manager. Can you imagine somebody refusing a $800.00 in gratuity or reducing it to $80.00 just because the can?

Our restaurant also had tip pools to protect us from abusive customres. A lot of places do. That means all waiters make the same, taking into account that captains get more, those that went home early get less, etc.

It was a great system. Now, that didn't mean people didn't get good service. To the contrary, our staff was more motivated. To say that incentive would go down is ludricous. Instead, what you get prejudism arise by making it mandatory. I can tell you just by looking at someone with great precision if they are a 10 percenter or less.

Those who are profiled will not get the same service as the guys who voluntaryily give more. So, there goes your incentive theory out the door. Plus, now you are saying trhat all these other industries that are protected by the same abusive customers are not giving the service they coudl be giving.

So you are saying that the guy who puts the tire on my car would try harder if he knew I have the option of scratching off his labor from my ticket? Really? So the problem is that everybody on salary and clock should go to tips to be more productive?

Wow. A utopia for gypsies!

[Marc]

That is a myth that tip is an acronym to ensure prompt service. It's a slang term, and it originated centuries prior to the Revolutionary war, and not even in the US. It has never had a legal defintion as such.

In Europe, the gratuity is also on the check in most places as I understand it. I used to wait tables in fine dining for several years in my past. I'm a court reporter now, and I can tell you that waiting table is the hardest work.

The higher you go up in the price of the menu, the more sophisticated the customer becomes. There is a direct correlation between intelligence and one's willingness to pay for a service that is not required by law. It usually the ignorant that don't want to pay if you want to play the probabilities, and I'd bet on the guy with the suit every time.

I would always prefer to work banquets. That's where most of the money is, and it is MANDATORY that gratuity WILL be paid. It's a written contract with the banquet manager. Can you imagine somebody refusing a $800.00 in gratuity or reducing it to $80.00 just because the can?

Our restaurant also had tip pools to protect us from abusive customres. A lot of places do. That means all waiters make the same, taking into account that captains get more, those that went home early get less, etc.

It was a great system. Now, that didn't mean people didn't get good service. To the contrary, our staff was more motivated. To say that incentive would go down is ludricous. Instead, what you get prejudism arise by making it mandatory. I can tell you just by looking at someone with great precision if they are a 10 percenter or less.

Those who are profiled will not get the same service as the guys who voluntaryily give more. So, there goes your incentive theory out the door. Plus, now you are saying trhat all these other industries that are protected by the same abusive customers are not giving the service they coudl be giving.

So you are saying that the guy who puts the tire on my car would try harder if he knew I have the option of scratching off his labor from my ticket? Really? So the problem is that everybody on salary and clock should go to tips to be more productive?

Wow. A utopia for gypsies!

[Lynn]

You can't, by definition, make a gratuity mandatory. You have to call it something else or incorporate it some other way into the bill. To call the police is just ridiculous and a very, very bad PR move for what $16.00. I have eaten at many fine dining restaurants and always received good service and always left a more than adequate tip. But this was not a fine dining restaurant. It is a pub. And from what my friends who live in Allentown tell me not a very good one either. I know waiting tables is hard work and some people are jerks for not tipping. But to HAVE to pay for something you don't get, like decent service, is dead wrong. It's like ordering dessert, not getting it but still being expected to pay for it. If the place was too busy to adequately attend to their customers then it sounds like a management problem to me and he should pay the gratuity.

[D-man]

I don't enjoy having a tip added to my tab. Knowing that I would probably tip more than what they add, all I give them is what they add in. I'm sorry but I'm not going to figure up how to tip you twice.

[Thin The Herd]

Given that there are a lot of cheapskates out there, I don't blame restaurants for adding the gratuity to large party bills.

But getting someone arrested isn't the best PR move I've heard of.

The customer isn't always right by a long shot, but that doesn't mean the eatery should put dung in its own food to prove the point either.

[Realist]

"I think that restaurants need to stand behind their staff."

I agree. They can start by paying their staff a living wage so staffers aren't dependent on the charity of customers to pay their bills.

Oh, that's not what you meant?

[Richard]

Tips are for good service. It is not the respondsibilty of the patron to pay the
labor charges. It should be the establishments responsibilty not the patron.

[Will Patterson]

Up front there was probably a notice that a group requires the 18% tip. If so then this was a theft if they refused to pay. If the management agreed that the service was bad enough to justify a deduction on the bill, the customer should have taken this. Too many waitresses work for tips only. The waitress shouldn't have to pay for all the mistakes.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

A couple of clarifications:

-I do NOT contend that the Lehigh Pub was wise to call the cops, or that the resulting publicity will help their business.

-Claiming that you can't require a "gratuity" is a game of semantics. It's like claiming that the old military chant about "this is my rifle, this is my gun" requires that a sign reading "No guns allowed" be interpreted as "Only Women Permitted".

-Why do almost all restaurants classier than fast food pay waitstaff the lowball $2.85/hour and rely on tips for their employees to make up the difference to a full $6.50 wage? Offhand, I can think of a couple of reasons:
- The restaurant gets sidework done and slow times (like 2 to 5p.m. during the week) covered cheaply.
- It allows the restaurant to advertise and claim on their menu an artificially low price...like your telephone or cell phone or cable provider.
- In many restaurants, waitstaff is required to tip-out bartenders, busboys and/or cooks. This reduces the restaurant's payroll cost, shifting that part away from the employer.
- Don't forget Tevia (from Fiddler on the Roof) singing "Traditiooooooooooon".

- My point of view is biased and my passion on the subject influenced by my daughter's waiting tables.

-I find it amusing (as a cynic) that a waiter or waitress is so unique. You can show your displeasure with your experience by punishing a low-ranking employee without even facing them. You can't do that at the grocery store or WallyWorld or Nordies.

-I apologize for my harsh harsh tones last night. (See daughter, above.)

[Ralfred]

Keith G., you belive getting your own place settings and drink refills constitutes having your ass kissed? If so, then yes I am guilty.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

Ralfred, see last sentence above, please. That said, surely you've seen extremes of that attitude in your dining experiences?

[SOB]

I think it would of been a worst crime if they had tippied

[Marc]

A lot of people keep saying that the restaurant should pay its employees and not the public. I'm all for that. You also state that you don't like it when the gratutity is in the check already. Well, if I don't know a person, I'd rather have the insurance as opposed to gambling. Good waiters know who their good repeat clients are, anyway.

So IFF the restaurant paid its staff right, as you say, where do they get the money? Margins are already tight. They would have to raise the price of the food, say, 20%. Yet, you also say in the same breath that you don't want the gratuity included.

Well, you can't have it both ways. Raising the price to cover labor costs IS the gratuity included. Only this time, it's legal. And now the myth that it's to "ensure promptnes" is gone. Waiters no longer have the incentive to get as many sales as they can anymore. They are not sales driven under the proposal many of you suggest, which I'm all for if I'm the waiter.

Lastly, just how does the one restaurant that does want to pay his employees fairly compete with the guy down the street that doesn't want to play by his rules? Remember, slavery was a free market too. If Mr.Fair Labor raises his prices, you, the custer, will go to the competition that has its menu prices 40% lower.

And yet,you, this customer that wants Mr.Fair Labor to pay his customers, won't be rewarding him for this effort. You'll go to Mr. Lower Price. So there needs to be legislation to make EVERYONE play by the same rulebook.

[Get over it]

It's called the "service industry" ergo, if the service is crap, you don't get a tip. Which by the way, the definition of gratuity is "something given voluntarily or beyond obligation for some service". Seems to put the whole argument in place, no? Voluntarily and beyond obligation are pretty self explanatory. If I go to a resturant and have a party that the restaurant decides to add gratuity onto and the sdervice is bad the gratuity comes off the check and I decide how much to leave. If a staff member cannot handle a big group then they should not be put on that group. Let someone else handle it. Bad service means no/low tip. Good service means good tip. It's pretty simple.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

Marc writes:
"Lastly, just how does the one restaurant that does want to pay his employees fairly compete with the guy down the street that doesn't want to play by his rules?"

It's tough, Marc, aided by the fact that we the customers think of the menu price and tend to forget the expense is 30% higher when you go to walk out the door. The cynical me says you'd have to educate the publ...nevermind. That's impossible.

The real solution would be to include labor costs in the menu price, just like any other business. It should be a "truth in advertising" issue. We're used to having tax added after that. If you have a problem in or with a restaurant, treat them like any other business: complain up the ladder. Don't go back. Write a bad review.

[BedlamX]

I have worked in service and depended on tips (though, thankfully, no longer). My wife works in service and depends on tips. Several of my other family members do the same. As such, we usually leave good to great tips...depending on service and attitude. Snotty or otherwise pathetic service (and not just wait staff, by the way...there are other professions that are tipped) gets you nothing while great service gets a great tip. Both will also get you a request for me to talk to the manager. Good service, with nothing special (either good or bad) will get the standard tip.

That's just me. I do, however, despise being told I HAVE to tip someone that I see as being absolutely worthless and should never be in service industry in the first place. This does not happen often at all...almost never. But it could with mandatory "gratuities."

By the way, I spent several years overseas in the army and it is (or at least was back in the early 90s) considered rude to leave a tip for a server. The only time a tip is left is when you were seriously unhappy with the service. Then it is customary to leave 1 pfennig (probably not spelled right)...less than a penny. A word of praise to the owner/manager about good service is the best compliment you can give there. A few other countries I have visited were the same. This country is the only one I have been in that ever required a mandatory gratuity no matter how bad the service.

[The management]

Marc, get your ass off the computer and get out there and clean off that table, damit.

[BadLiberal]

@KeithG:
"BadLiberal, you write "It does not matter what the menu says" and tell me MY head is up my ass? Are you a shyster? That's shyster thinking...everything is negociable and what is written is subject to every idiot's interpretation."

Uh, NO, Keith, expecting SERVICE for any CONTRACT is NOT "shyster thinking". If service is not provided, NO F--N TIP!!! And no, it does NOT matter what the menu says, if said service is not provided to earn said contractual obligation, said contractual obligation is NULL AND VOID. This is not negotiation, this is your right as a paying customer who got ripped off. You seem to miss this very basic point. So yes, your head is up your a$$. As I have stated.

And since WHEN is there an entitlement to "gratuities"? As others have pointed out, people working at McDonald's get paid much less than people at these "fine" establishments such as this Lehigh Pub. And they work just as hard. Yes, you pay less, but then you are not getting the service you are PAYING for at Lehigh Pub. And not getting - and getting arrested for not living up to some "contractual obligation"? Give me a break. So I don't want to hear it about the plight of the poor service personnel, it is their job to provide service, and if it is not provided, then guess what? They don't get a gratuity! This is the business model which has been around as long as our society has been around. If idiots like Lehigh Pub want to try to change the rules, provide bad service and throw people in prison for not paying some alleged "contractual obligation", don't come griping to the rest of us who are not going to put up with it.

[FredZeppelin]

I know this much--if I'm the owner of this place I would have ripped the bartender a new one for causing negative press for my business. He should have just let it go. If the couple came back and they still felt that strongly about what had happened, they could always deny them service.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

BadLiberal, I was going to point you toward the end of my 7:11 a.m. post, but on further thought, forget it. I'll wager you're a fine customer, and discount the labor charge when you get your car repaired.

[1]

In my view a tip is optional, end of story! If you get good service and you feel generous by all means leave one. If you feel the service is sub-par then don't.

[Keith G. in P.V.]

My view, 1, is that you should "Think McDonald's". They don't care whether you're feeling generous or not.

[Drasil]

If it is part of the total price of the meal and not a "voluntary" gratuity then change the prices to reflect the "real" price and have the establishment pay the wait staff out of the price of the meal.

On tips, the advice I gave my son is simple. If you don't adequately tip a waiter/waitresss, then I strongly suggest you never return to that establishment. I wouldn't want to eat there again for safety reasons.

[kcguy]

Have dictionaries gone by the wayside?

Gratuity: Something given as voluntarily or beyond obligation. (Webster's)

Gratuity - See BOUNTY: 1. A premium or benefit offered or given 2. A gift. (Black's Law Dictionary)

If a restaurant wants to charge extra for a large party (and make it enforceable) then they need to call it something else. Like a "service fee."

And yes, I have been a waiter.

[C]

Technically the menu in these places only says that large parties will be charges a gratuity and never says anything about promising prompt and excellent service. Should theuy have been arrested? Technically it is part of the bill and it would be like trying to walk out and not pay your bill so yes they should have. You don't get to pick and choose which items you will pay for. That being said most people have a tendency to "shoot the messenger", punishing the server for things that in most cases are not their fault. The kitchen messes up your order, the bar messes up your drinks, the hostess accidentely seats someone esle ahead of you that they shouldnt have, or even it took you longer to be sat than was anticipated because the guests already there took longer to finish their meals and pay and leave. All these things do happen but it is the server who is usually punished for these things by lousy tips. Most places if you complain to the server they will do whatever they can to make things right for you, whether it is getting some food comped or getting some free desserts or whatnot. When times are very busy in an establishment, things do take longer than they normally would and you should expect that and account for it. People tend to take things for granted and should actually be happy they even have a place to go dine out considering the number of those places that have closed in the last few years. Aside from people whose jobs involve saving lives, where a screw up means someone dies, there is no field as stressful as the service industry. No other profession bases it's livelyhood on the goodwill of other people. Before anyone thinks to make a comment about education of these people bear in mind a number of servers and bartenders are educated and have degrees and work in this field because the need the money from a second job or they couldn't even get a job with their degree due to the horrible economy. I work in the industry and am in school as well working on my degree. One of our mantras is "treat people like you would guests in your home", though if some of these people behaved in my home like they do dining out i would kick them out of my house and never invite them back again. It is pretty bad when i look forward to being deployed overseas for the military sometimes because the stress of being in a war zone is actually less than the stress of working in the service industry and dealing with those people who take all these things for granted and treat dining out like a right and not the privilege it actually is.