Does Roeder have the right to a "necessity defense"?

Scott Roeder has already told reporters that, yes, he killed abortion provider George Tiller earlier this year. His only defense, it seems, would mean arguing that he was somehow justified in slaying the doctor. (He's officially pleaded not guilty.) The judge still has to decide whether that argument, the necessity defense, can even be used in the trial.

There's also the chance that his lawyers -- who haven't disclosed their strategy -- might argue for a ruling of voluntary manslaughter. They'd say Roeder's actions were based on an "unreasonable, but honest" belief that merited the use of deadly force. That'd still mean jail time, but would entail less punishment than a Murder One rap. The trial itself starts Jan. 11 -- these other issues might be discussed during a hearing this week, though.

(AP Photo/Jaime Oppenheimer, Pool)

Comments

[You're a Mean Drunk R2D2™]

The sad thing is, if for some freak reason this freak gets off on a technicality or has a ultra conservative jury pool, it will just give more of the anti-abortion wacko's the justification that it's ok to kill doctors who do abortions.

Hopefully he gets locked up and put in a cell with some big scary guys that will do unholy things to his hind end.

[cripjak]

No. This guy has already done enough to try to taint the potential jury pool he doesn't need any more help.

[Obama, worst president ever]

How many babies are alive today because to this man? Just wondering.

[WhatsTheBuzz]

Hmmmm....can't imagine that someone with the screen name "Obama, worst president ever" would have a right-wing lean to this debate.

If you are Pro-LIFE you have to be pro EVERYONE's life...you can't pick and choose one life over another.

[Patty PV]

Oh, you mean like protesting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[Searching]

LOL patty.
As much as I detest abortion, this man's actions are deplorable. He has set back the rights of unborn children by decades.

[Drasil]

Hey searching, I thought that unborn children didn't HAVE rights, only mothers of unborn children.

[Derp]

because to this man? Worst grammar ever. Therefore, not going to pay attention to your political stance.

There is no defense for this whack-job. He walked into a church (ohhhh the irony) and unloaded - at point blank range, in front of many witnesses - on the Dr. That is 1st degree murder. Abortions are legal. Walking into a church and shooting someone dead because of your beliefs is ILLEGAL and TERRORISM. So to Gitmo or the Chamber he goes!

And I can't help but laugh at the shear ignorance of Roeder in that, this action did soooo much more to harm his 'cause' than help. Sure, fringe lunatics and morons applaud this, the rest of the free-thinking country condemns such acts

[Jimbo-bob]

Hey Obama:
"How many babies are alive today because to this man? Just wondering."

Probably none smart guy, do you think he was the only one performing abortions or something?

[Brad]

The one sure way to end abortion is for men and women to enjoy their sexual freedom responsibly. I know it's an idealistic pipe dream--personal responsibility--but a pretty simple concept nonetheless.

[Patty PV]

Some Catholic healthcare facilities advised pregnant women to "get an abortion" when it was discovered their babies would be born with severe and/or fatal abnormalities. They wouldn't tell them where to go, of course, just that they could have an abortion if they wanted one.

So the simple concept of birth control is one thing. It's a more complicated matter when parents learn their baby will be born without a brain, and they have a legal option to terminate the pregnancy.

The number of doctors willing to do this have dwindled because there is a very good chance that they, or someone at their clinic, will be harassed or attacked. One of our own bloggers recently put up the address and phone number of the Nebraska clinic on the thread, with the clearly stated hope he'd "get a good reception."

[Searching]

If you google his name Patty, the first thing that comes up is his address.. four times.

[sickoftheidiots]

Great concept Brad. It's to bad the church refuses to advocate or even allow for birth control.

And no, abstinence is not the same thing. I'm pretty sure, at least I hope, that Brad is talking about birth control that actually works.

[anarchanon]

The *clinic's* addy? I can't say I mind, it's a place of business.

Now if they posted a bunch of personal info, that'd be over a line. I'm sure it's easily found anyway, but propigating people's personal info, with a hope that vengance will swiftly find said person as a result, is right out.

[anon]

I'm no lawyer, but he can try any defense that he think will work. He'll do whatever he wants to anyway - as when he killed this doctor and admitted it to reporters. I don't think he's the sharpest tool in the shed.

[me]

DR. TILLER THE BABY KILLER. HOW'S SATAN DOinG TILLER!

[Brett]

Hahaha, you believe in Satan..

[Patty PV]

Thanks for the stellar example of Christian values in action, me.

[me]

PV. Your welcome. The problem is that Christian's don't kill babies!
Tiller did!

[Joe]

Wow 'me' way to raise the level of this conversation with your invaluable insight. Your type is why faith & religion takes a hit every day. It's also why folks like myself would rather take our chances.

[WhatsTheBuzz]

(Me)
Your welcome? Really? How about You're Welcome.

[anon]

I'd rather have resposible sexual activity than abortions but....we need it. We have way to many stupid people with kids they cannot take care of or raise with values. It is being GREEN, we have enough people on this planet. Speed up death row as well.

[parkay]

The real question begging an answer:
Why was such vigilante justice necessary to stop a dangerous abortionist quack from flaunting state laws and medical regulations to illegally mangle, dismember, poison, and behead viable human babies? Why didn't the Kansas criminal justice system have Tiller in prison years ago?

[Chuck McRizzo]

Because per the supreme court parkay this has to do with a womans right to privacy.

Just like my right to conceal and carry a fire arm, if you don't know about it, that's your problem.

[Himagain]

Great, more anti-abortion / pro-choice debating *yawn*

Anybody's mind changed yet? I didn't think so.

Abortions will always exist. Get over it. If they pass any laws against the practice, it will just occur over the black market, or they will distribute self-abortion kits over the Internet.

[John]

To answer the question posed, I think he should have the right to use whatever defense he wants. He's obviously crazy - would anyone have a problem if he went with the insanity defense? (Not saying he should get off as I think he knows right from wrong but he is crazy!)

Look at Roeder's logic - abortion is murder and murder is wrong so I am going to murder someone, or to put it another way he aborted Tillar in his 250th trimester.

[John]

The problem is that Christian's don't kill babies! Tiller did!

Posted by: me | Monday, December 21, 2009 at 02:16 PM
---------------------

Tiller didn't molest little boys, priest's did!

[John]

Shouldn't just pick on priests, there are countless stories about Rabbi's, minsiters, imams, Hindu priests, etc. molesting little boys and girls.

God bless organized religon.

More people have been killed in his name then any other!

[Chuck McRizzo]

John you shouldn't stop there, there are plenty of stories about athiests raping, murdering, genocide. Heck Stalin was an athiest.... He did a great job representing his belief system didn't he.

[KC Cicero]

The real problem is that he could call the Roman Catholic bishops as his expert witnesses. They teach that abortion is murder -- and if that is the case, use of deadly force is justified morally to prevent such an act.

They and other religious leaders who sell this should not be able to escape the inescapable logic of their positions -- like Pilate washing his hands and seeking to wash away his guilt.

[Brett]

Atheism isn't a belief system Chuck, its a lack of belief in one (1!) thing. I'm an atheist, and my "belief system" is completely different than Stalin, I assure you. There is no doctrine that ties us together, like there is for other religions. It is not an accurate analogy on any level to compare atheism to a religion. Comparing Christians is at least closer - since they share (supposedly) the same dogma - although still not fair.

[KcTwo]

How do you honestly blame Tiller without blaming the mother who walked into the clinic and gave her consent or the politiians who made it legal? How does that work? Sounds as ignorant as blaming the gun maker for making the gun or the dealer for selling the gun instead of the POS who used the gun illegally and killed someone.

[Mark Archer]

How can Scott Roeder care about the pre-born children when he does not even care about his own born children. He could care less if his own children are properly fed, clothed and sheltered. He is using the necessity defense to get away with murder. He is a hypocrite and a liar. I know Scott personally. I know what I am talking about. I pray he gets what he deserves, life behind bars, where he cannot kill anymore abortion doctors or terrorize other people.

[Mainstream Coalition]

Parkay is the only one here to hit a home run. Tiller benefited from jury nullification in the one trial he was subjected to, before that he (and the rest of the abortion industry in Kansas) has benefited from one of the most corrupt judiciaries in the country.

The seven dwarves of the Kansas Supreme Court have consistently drug their feet and thwarted investigations into the abortion industry in Kansas and have even gone so far as to wage a vendetta against the few prosecutors who have tried to enforce the state's regulations against the industry. In addition, sleazebag "prosecutors" like Gary Rebensdorf and Nola Foulston have ignored criminal allegations against Tiller and his staff even when photographic evidence was provided.

If those charged with enforcing the law will not they have no right to expect that others will not enforce it for them. Were I on Roeder's jury, he would be a free man. It's not that I agree with what he did, it's that the state of Kansas has forfeited any right to prosecute this man owing to its own dirty hands.

Let's also distinguish here between innocent life, and guilty life. I don't hold the people who assassinated Reinhard Heydrich guilty of murder, or the person who executes the Carr brothers (when and if the state gets around to enforcing that law, once again the morons of the KSC are doing their best to not enforce the law) because they are guilty of mass murder. Yet liberals want to molly coddle these monsters.

On the other hand, they have not one problem with slaughtering millions upon millions of babies, babies who are innocent of any wrongdoing. Tiller slaughter thousands of innocent babies, Roeder executed a mass murderer whom the legal authorities failed to hold accountable.

[Chuck McRizzo]

Brett when someone says a Christian they use it as an overarching term to describe a person that follows Christ. It may include Catholics, it includes Baptists it includes the Amish. So when I say Stalin is an Atheist sorry buddy but you get lumped in there. For wrong or right you get the same treatment us backwards angel followers do.

[Brett]

Chuck, I think you missed what I said. I'll just say it again. Not believing in something is very different than believing in something. Belief in something establishes, as you said, a "set of beliefs". Not believing in something does not establish such a thing. Stalin didn't believe in pink bunny rabbits that secretly orbit every Mcdonalds. I assume you don't believe in these bunny rabbits either. This doesn't mean you share Stalin's beliefs. There is nothing in common between 2 atheists, other than what they don't believe in, which is hardly anything in common at all (certainly much less than if they chose to believe in something). There is plenty in common between 2 christians (the bible). Its ridiculous to act as if it is otherwise. After all, almost everyone doesn't believe in a ton of things (goblins, 50 foot leopards, 12,000 year old gorillas, underground armies of baby Mozarts). Not believing in these things doesn't tie people together. See what I'm getting at?

And suit yourself if you want to mock your beliefs. I never said, and won't ever say, anything negative about them.

[Pragmatic Believer]

#6: Thou shalt not kill. Pretty straightforward. Two wrongs don't make a right, even though three lefts do.

[Drasil]

Pragmatic - Actually the original #6 said "Thou shall not commit murder." Totally different thing.

[Drasil]

For those who wish to dispute my last comment, here's one of many links to it:

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/what-does-thou-shall-not-kill-mean.html

[Johnson]

ZOMG! A website that could in no part ever have a bias or agenda when changing a freaking commandment! Its like I heard the words straight from god himself! You've broken the code!

[Drasil]

You're missing the point Johnson. That site didn't change the commandment, it explains how the commandment itself was changed due to a translation error. Did you both to read it or did you just decide to comment without reading? Besides, I said that was one of many sites that could be researched. I guess you just don't feel up to it.