Missouri ranks No. 2 for rate of black homicide victims

That's according to the Violence Policy Center, a national group that looked at FBI crime statistics from 2007, the most recent available. Missouri had 235 black homicide victims that year, which translates to 34.82 homicides per 100,000 black residents.

Pennsylvania was the only state that had a higher rate. And please note -- the VPC looked at rates, not the number of homicide cases.

You might be asking: Why are they focusing on black homicides? The center, which studies gun violence, says that homicides tend to affect the black community at a much higher rate than the rest of society -- but that most people aren't paying attention. They use "epidemic" to describe the problem, which especially affects young men. That's certainly been true in Kansas City -- in 2008, about 75 percent of homicide victims were African-American.

From the VPC report:

According to the FBI SHR data, in 2007 there were 7,387 black homicide victims in the United States. The homicide rate among black victims in the United States was 20.86 per 100,000. For that year, the overall national homicide rate was 5.30 per 100,000. For whites, the national homicide rate was 3.11 per 100,000.

Comments

[Pat the......]

Surprised?

You wont be after this episode of "Soap".

[Pat the......]

"Data from Florida was not requested individually because the difference in collection techniques would create a bias in the study results."

Explain that one.

[Pat the......]

Reducing access to firearms is the answer.

RIGHT! Whats a cubit?

Uh, how about raising your children properly?

[Gomez Adams]

Wow, what a surprise. The VPC has an agenda.

Stated here:

"For blacks, like all victims of homicide, guns—usually handguns—are far and
away the number one murder tool. Successful efforts to reduce America’s black homicide toll must put a focus on reducing access to firearms."

I don't think these guys care who kills whom. They just want to ban guns. That's their agenda. Not just handguns. All guns.

They blame guns for the violence humans commit against one another.

[Pat the......]

Right on Gomez. You nailed it dude.

[James Hart]

Just to pipe up ...

You're right about VPC having an agenda: They want gun regulation, if not a full-out ban. But I don't see anything to indicate their figures are wildly out of whack. So the underlying point -- that we have a huge problem with young black guys getting murdered -- is still valid.

Pat, thanks for noting the bit about Florida. I'm betting they would probably rank pretty highly. Still, even if they were No. 1 -- Missouri would rank No. 3, which means we still have a pretty high rate of these deaths.

[Pat the......]

James-What percentage of the six are black?

[Pat the......]

Excuse me, six being KC's current homocide count.

[rg]

No data for Washington, DC? Hmmm....

[Elrond of Rivendell]

"So the underlying point -- that we have a huge problem with young black guys getting murdered -- is still valid."

James, I will not argue that point. It is valid. But we have a violence problem, not a gun problem.

Banning or regulating guns will not solve the problem. It doesn't even address the problem.

Its like regulating musical instruments to prevent bad music.

Further, guns are already highly regulated.

I just don't see how regulating the tool criminals use to commit their crimes can help preventing those crimes.

To me, the answer is severe punishment for crimes committed with guns.

[Searching]

Sounds to me like we need to reduce the access of firearms to blacks. That should solve it. LOL

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Searching,

I truly hope that was said with your sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek voice.

[msfreeh]

to view a partial list of crimes committed by FBI agents over 1500 pages long see
forums.signonsandiego.com/showthread.php?t=59139

to view a partial list of FBI agents arrested for pedophilia see
dallasnews.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3574

[Jane]

Can't you guys see... we should be giving blacks MORE guns so they can protect themselves from themselves. You will see the murder rate drop!

[D-man]

They just want to get rid of guns so they are pushing their agenda extra hard while the democrats still maintain a majority.

[quixotic]

Kansas City has a cultural problem that needs to be addressed. The "Killa City" gang culture encourages youths to think extra-legal violence is normal, even if they're not in a gang.

[Jane]

It will be like the cash for cluckers program...

Berettas for Blacks

or

Glocks for Gangstas

[Chuck McRizzo]

What's hilarious about Jane's argument is her idea that these fellows are getting firearms legally. I'd bet that over 90% of them are gotten ILLEGALLY. So basically if we ban guns, that means law abiding citizens won't be able to get them, but the criminals still will.

[JUNGLE JIM]

I pay cash for cluckers, especially if they're layin' hens!

[Jane]

other than stealing or a they are a felon how can you get a gun illegally?

Chuck are you saying all blacks that have guns are felons that steal them?

[Jane]

Jim.....you chicken you!

[Searching]

Elrond... of course... forgot to use my sarcasm font.
Jane- what he is saying is the criminal element, is obtaining them illegally. They rob places and steal them from homes, gun shops. etc...

[Chuck McRizzo]

I'm not saying that all blacks who have guns have them illegally. I'm saying that 90% of the 7,387 homicides reported were guns that were used by felons. What you need to take into account that of that 7387 of those homicides the vast majority are gang/drug related.

How did you go from what I said to all blacks? That makes no sense. I said felons vs law abiding citizens. I didn't know that the term felon and law abiding citizen had races attached to them.

[Jane]

I think I got that from your statement.

"I'd bet that over 90% of them are gotten ILLEGALLY."

[bug]

Great job to the Black community. Keep up the "Don't Snitch" campaign and continue to hold worthless vigals and you can reach #1.

[Jane]

Even if the vast majority is gang/drug related killings, I agree with you there. Doesn’t mean the weapons that are used were illegally obtained.

Elrond could sell me a gun for $100 bucks. If I’m not a felon it’s perfectly legal.
I can use that gun to knock over a drug store. NOT legal.

The crime doesn’t make the gun illegal. To many people assume that because a gun is used illegally then it too must be illegal.

[the Black community]

Not sure about "vigals" but I have lots of worthless viagras.

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Jane,

Actually, statistics indicate the vast, vast majority of guns used in crimes ARE obtained by illegal means.

By illegal means, I mean:

Stolen
Bought off the street from someone who stole it (most often because the person is a felon and can't buy a gun legally)
Given by a family member or friend (most often because the person is a felon and can't buy a gun legally)
Straw purchase (most often because the person is a felon and can't buy a gun legally)

Very, very few are bought from a store, or even bought from gun shows (unlike what the anti-gun crowd would have us believe)

Most criminals who use guns to commit their crimes are repeat offenders.

[Chuck McRizzo]

I can agree with that arguement Jane, that you can purchase a gun legally and then commit an illegal act.

[Drasil]

Chuck just can't win today.

[Chuck McRizzo]

Meh, I'm here I'm healthy, I'm happy. So I win anyway.

[Jimbo-bob]

You have to find the root of the problem and that is the hip-hop/rap culture. All that junk music (not all but most) glorifies shooting people and tells stories of what they would do to cops if they tried to stop them, ect. If you grow up with daddy and mommy listening to is the N.W.A., then turn on the tube and the coolest guy you look up to is 50 Cent, how do you think your outlook on life will be?

[Chuck McRizzo]

Who let Ruth back in?

[Jane]

Elrond, Every weapon I have ever owned has either been given to me or I bought from a person. I don’t want to pay gun store/show mark up and get a back ground check.

[thishurtsyoutoo...]

Here comes the racism on the sly from people who don't know the whole story Sigh....
Classic desensitization. We'll see what happens when it starts becoming more the norm in Johnson County and such "Suburban/Rural" areas in the metro..

[Jane]

I wish I could say this

The subject isn’t about gun control or whither guns used in black on black crimes are legal or illegal. It is the lack of the black community’s progress or willingness in demanding black parents/families raise productive members of society. Instead of propagating ideal of professional victimhood. Of course I can’t say this as a white woman. Stating the obvious is racist.

[James Hart]

Let me pipe up again:

I think it's arrogant in the extreme to paint an entire ethnic group as lazy, bad, wrong, etc., when a lot of the people making these remarks don't know much about the people that they're condemning.

When you say it's the fault of the "black community," you're condemning every church leader, school volunteer, youth coach, etc., that gives of their time to try and help young people in these communities. And don't tell me these people don't exist, aren't numerous enough to be counted. I've met them in the course of work, and they're absolutely out there.

And if you feel like they're not doing enough, well, you're always welcome to roll up your sleeves and get involved.

I'm not saying there aren't rotten elements out there. Or that things like gangsta rap and the drug culture aren't part of the problem. Please don't take it that way. But I hate hate HATE it when just blame "black people" in total.

Another thing: Don't think you can say "this is a black problem" and walk away from it. Unless you want to continue paying higher and higher taxes for prisons and police, or see more of the city become abandoned because crime chases residents and business away. It's not a black problem. It's a problem for the whole metro.

[Obama is the man]

This is a tragic statistic. Little wonder in view of a 80% illegitimate birth rate, single- female lead homes, 90% children on welfare (per The Star), 50% + dropout rate, hip/hop/gangster/victim mentality culture,

With this type of social-economic chaos, why is the black leadership more focused
on the P&L dress code and not solvig the more important issues which are contributing to this crime statistic. I guess the Lawsuits on the P&L Dress Code are more profitable.

[JLB]

Everyone is quick to comment on the statistics of what race the victims are but the real point is what race is commiting the crimes?

[Jane]

I am active in my community, I volunteer at my daughter’s school and her school district USD 500. But there is only so much you can do when there is little to no support or reinforcement at home.

But James you see you proved my point. Of course everyone knows that better parenting within the black community would benefit us all. But If I point that out as a white woman I’m in the wrong. Now if a black community leader says it and he is lauded for his efforts. How can the whole metro work on these issues if what some of us have to say is lambasted?

[bug]

James,

A majority of these killings are black on black. Then when the police go in to help, no one knows anything or has seen anything. When a black officers goes into these neighborhoods, he is called a traitor. I have seen it many times.

I have many wonderful African American friends and many of them have seen the same and express the same frustration that folks refuse to help the police only to see the crime continue.

Yes, the problem is in the black community. It is not the whole problem certainly as lack of education, jobs, and wealth at times creates more frustration that leads to some of these killings. However, when folks start cooperating with the police and tell what they know, instead of waiting for it to escalate to a revenge killing, then they can start claiming they are not an equal part of the problem.

[AJ]

Well said Obama is the man! I agree with you 100%!

[James Hart]

Jane: I'm sorry. You're right about the parenting -- better parenting would solve a lot of problems. Of course, better parenting would solve a lot of poverty/drug problems in the WHITE community, too. Funny how nobody mentions that.

I guess I'm just sick of some commenters here who get self-righteous and declare, well, the problem is all black people. I DON'T think you're in that group, but when you say it's the "black community's" fault, it's like you're blaming everybody in that group.

I mean, is that what you think? That it's basically the fault of all / most black people?

[Michael]

James,

You stated your case very well. Is there such a thing as a "black problem" in our society? My (white) children received education, therapy, medical treatment, etc.... from people of many ethnic backgrounds including black people.
I agree that the numbers suggest that crime committed by black people is up compared to other ethnicities. How does this mean that only black people can solve this? We hear phrases to often like "Why don't they take care of their own problems."
I don't know of any good argument that states that it is not our problem as well. People are people. If a particular ethnicity is in trouble, I would think that it reflects poorly on us, not on them.

,
Michael

[James Hart]

bug: Those are good points. And you're right about the statistics and how young black men are usually killed by other young black men.

I don't know what I would do if I lived in a bad neighborhood and had information that could help police. I'd like to think that I'd do the right thing, even if it was just calling the TIPS Hotline anonymously.

And I agree with Jane, too, about better parenting being the solution for a lot of the problems.

[Jinks]

Obama is not the man.

[Jane]

Of course I don’t believe that it’s all black people’s fault. I like you believe that we all should be working on these issues. But we are never going to be able to work on those issues if there is a segment of the population that is left out of the debate.

Like when you said “Of course, better parenting would solve a lot of poverty/drug problems in the WHITE community, too. Funny how nobody mentions that.”

That has been repeated many times in debates like this. It’s totally dismissive of the issue.

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Jane,

"Every weapon I have ever owned has either been given to me or I bought from a person."

There's nothing wrong with that. Perfectly legal. As long as you're not a felon.

[Searching]

How much money and resources can you continue to throw at a group of people that insist on thinking, they are a victim and someone owes them?

[James Hart]

OK, I see where you're coming from. My comment was a little off-topic. It's basically me reacting to some of those other commenters I mentioned before. (Though the basic argument is true, too -- a lot of the deadbeats in my all-white hometown would've been better off with better parents.)

Switching gears ... How do you fix a problem like this?

I don't think it's necessarily something that you can just throw money at. The Kansas City school district was able to invest huge sums in schools during the era of the desegregation lawsuit. But I don't think anybody thinks they got a good return on it. (Though criminologists generally agree -- it's way cheaper to intervene with education and counseling early in life than building prisons later on.)

There's a program in Harlem that's done really well -- it's a nonprofit effort that provides prenatal, early-childhood care, afterschool programs, counseling, health-care, etc. It tracks kids all the way from infants to high school, making sure all of their needs are being met. KC leaders are lobbying the feds to get money for a similar project here.

But it's a big investment. And though it might be necessary and could do a lot of good, in a way, it's sort of depressing, too -- why do we need a nonprofit to handle things that parents and extended families used to do on their own?