Are they Good Samaritans? Or child traffickers?

A group of 10 U.S. Baptists are being held by Haitian authorities after they allegedly tried to bring 30-plus Haitian kids to an orphanage in the Dominican Republic, without the necessary paperwork. The Haitian government is open to the possibility of having them tried in America, but they want the group to face prosecution. (They seem pretty annoyed that some of the kids are not, in fact, orphans.)

The 33 kids, ranging in age from 2 months to 12 years and with their names written in tape on their shirts, were being sheltered in a temporary children's home, where some told aid workers that they have surviving parents. Lassegue said the Social Affairs Ministry was trying to find them.

"One (9-year-old) girl was crying, and saying, 'I am not an orphan. I still have my parents.' And she thought she was going on a summer camp or a boarding school or something like that," said George Willeit, a spokesman for the SOS Children's Village.

One of the detained Americans is from the Topeka area.

Comments

[Searching]

I am not sure these guys are really any Traffickers... I just think they are idiots.

[Sean]

Yup, the kind of idiots who go out of their way to spend their own money to do humanitarian aid and try to make a difference in the world, instead of sitting at home criticizing people on the Internet.

"No good deed goes unpunished."

[Marvin]

Saw on TV that 10 of these "orphans" have at least one parent alive. Good intentions maybe, but poorly thought out execution.

[Gomez Adams]

Right.

We're on a mission from god, so we don't have to follow any rules, because our rules overrule man's rules.

Like checking to make sure its OK to take these kids. Or finding out if the kids still had parents.

Well intentioned or not, it sure looks like they had a lot of "we know what's best for these kids better than you do, because if you stay here, you won't follow the 'right' religion."

[know it all]

I'll go along with poor execution and planning but from the press statements, they knew enough about Dominican adoption law and processes so some thought was put into this. After all, their church published a grand plan to set up a resort for adoptive parents in DR and they knew that adoptive parents have to stay in DR for sixty days for the adoption process. They also didn't take any child over 12, who would have to consent to the adoption under Dominican law. This group incorporated and placed craigslist's ads soliciting money for buses, funds and donations of goods.

So, the comment that they were "spending their own money", not totally true.

They rented hotel rooms in another country and tried to move Haitian children to DR without getting the approval of the Haitian goverment. It has yet to be revealed which official in DR gave approval and on what authority since DR has no jurisdiction over Haitian citizens. (I did not sleep through civics class).

Natural disaster notwithstanding, the laws of Haiti still apply to Haitian citizens and these children are Haitian.

The big mistake was not recognizing that the government of Haiti had a rightful say in where these children belong. Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense. There are hundreds of press articles where the prime minister of Haiti made it clear that any child removed from Haiti, that child had to have the prime minister's written approval. Also, plenty of detailed press on how Haitian adoptees can be transported to the US under very narrow immigration laws. If the child was not in an official adoption process which normally takes up to three years in Haiti, they were not eligible for humanitarian parole type visas.

The real question is why didn't they try to set up an operation in Haiti instead of trying to cross the boarder when none of these children had the proper consents and paperwork?

[Searching]

Sean.. so, then why are you not down there instead of sitting on the internet critizing people. I sure they could have used another idiot on their journey.

[Mike]

Kidnapping for Jesus is still kidnapping. They belong in jail. Pious religious folk really get under my skin.

[Searching]

I dont think they were trying to kidnap anyone, I just think they were ignorant.
Anyone can arrange travel plans and have good intentions.. that doesnt mean they know everything.

[Lyberty Belle]

There are millions of American children in foster care. Adopt them first!
As far as taking Haitian children out of their native country reminds me of when Africans were forcibly taken from their homelands.
The Haitians are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. There is a fine line between adoption and kidnapping. How would you explain to them twenty years from now that you took them for some elitist attitude?
Leave Haitians in Haiti!!!!!

[Searching]

Apparently, they knew what they were doing, but, thought they could get away with it

[Interested]

Maybe Haitian President took lessons from how Bush handled the New Orleans disaster.

[Ein]

Lyberty Belle,

American children in foster care are treated a whole lot better (in spite of the horror stories) and have a lot more resources than orphans in Haiti, earthquake or not.

[Kate]

Can you imagine in the aftermath of a massive quake in California a group of Muslim's taking a group of American children across to Mexico for adoption? I imagine the response would be to hang em high.

[wyomingsundancer]

Can you imagine your house is on fire, every one evacuates and in the confusion this group comes along and grabs your children and heads for the border? I don't think you would call them good Samaritans.

[Interested]

Kate, you are right. But we (US folks) define the word "hypocrites". We like to think we know what is best for everyone and that we do no wrong. Then when it is obvious that these "religious" people pre-planned this caper, we want to give them a free pass because "they didn't know what they were doing" or "the Haitian President is a bad man" or whatever. Always excuses or someone elses fault. When are we going to start accepting responsibility for the things we do?

By the way, before I get hit with "love it or leave it", I do love this country, I just wish the people in it would truly follow "do unto others .../practice what you preach/etc."

[Stifled Freedom]

Well, they broke the law. A law that was likely bullied into place by our own State Dept to combant child trafficking. And our own law was mostly bullied into place by conservatives (including Baptists) who wanted this law in its current level of severity. I dont have any sympathy. They wanted the law....they got it....I guess they forget that they must comply too.

I have heard reports that some of the kids invovled had families in Haiti. So why did they need to be moved and did the family agree....or were they even asked?

We dont know what thier real intention was either. And what was thier plan for getting the kids back home.

Lots of questions.

[aqua]

It's about time they cracked down on human traffic rings in Haiti. These people make me sick! That one in the blue shirt on the right looks really guilty! Send her to Gitmo for waterboarding!

[Stifled Freedom]

The Haitan President is administering the law that the US govt extorted him to do.

The US often extorts poor countries, with US aid money, to provide and enforce the laws WE think they should have.

He is going exactly what the US State dept has paid him to do. If US citizens get caught in the middle, well too bad. Unintended consequence.

[dsw]

From what I have read and heard, 33 kids where taken. 12 of them have living parents. Of the parents asked so far all gave up the children in hopes they would have better lives.

Still I think this group messed up.

That place was a trash pile before the quake, now parents are taking this time to "try" to give there children better.

[Oldtimer]

Those of you who condone these actions as justifiable, because these misguided missionarys are doing good, must force yourselves to realize that we exist as a nation of laws. These laws may not take into account what you believe your god wants, but nonetheless, without law we revert back to the stone ages. It is even more important to observe the laws of other countries. The only truth that comes from this is another example of the uncivilized nature of religion. Religion walks hand in hand with anarchy, as this planet's history describes.

[gee]

Knock it off, Oldtimer--

Don't use the stupid actions of a group of Baptists to justify your feelings about religion. You have an ax to grind with religion--I get that, I'm the same way. But, to use this as an example of the "uncivilized nature of religion" is a bit of a reach. When non-religious affiliated people commit a crime, is that an example of the uncivilized nature of secularists?

If they broke the law, they should be charged and punished if found guilty. But to say that religion walks hand-in-hand with anarchy is asinine. My dad (in his late 60's)has been the regional director for the Carribean for an evangelical church for many years. He was supposed to be in Haiti the day of the quake, but had rescheduled for the following week due to the flu. He's been in and out of the Dominican Republic numerous times since the quake coordinating relief efforts for his denomination, and making sure that the schools and medical facilities operated by his church can continue to function. What an anarchist, huh?

[Oldtimer]

Gee. Has your father ever broken a law to achieve his mission? Does he hold his religious beliefs above those of everyone else? The evidence is against your argument, because while your father may have the purest of intentions, and operates under the laws of the nations in which he works, there are a growing number of religious people, particularly Americans, who feel that the laws of man do not apply to them. My ax to grind is that your opinion about what is right has little to do with truth. The truth is Americans, as a whole, are perceived to be wholistically arrogant about telling others what to do with there lives. We must rescue these poor sad souls from the eternal damnation of their condition. It is impossible for most religions to admit that they do NOT possess either the understanding or proper attitude to actually help these foreign peoples. And while it is always stated that these religious people are trying to help, the reality is that their primary goal is to convert/spread the word of god.

If you, and those like you, want to truly help mankind, start at home and try to bring social conciousness back to where we live. Live according to the laws of the land and lead by example for citizenship. Then maybe you wouldn't be recognized as a close runner up to the Taliban.

[Searching]

Yeah, gee.. totally going to hell for that one. :)

[Chuck McRizzo]

Gomez how little you know my friend.

Haiti has an offical religion and its Roman Catholic so they're Christians. So good luck next time with the wrong religion crap.

[EZdidit]

aqua is right. You can tell by the photos these people are up to no good, especially that one on the right. Looks like a typical crazed Baptist, probably planning to turn the orphans into slaves.

[Obama is the man]

Oldtimer:

Let go of your anger about Christains and our values! If America was not founded upon Christain-Judeo principles,then we would have a country similar to Mao's China, Stalin's Russia, and Hitler's Germany! Besides, no Christain has forced you to covert on the pain of death like the Muslims! God grants you freedom of choice!!

It is the generousity and labor of love by Christains, the US Military, and American taxapayers which is making a difference in Haiti! Christains provided the majority of relief wirk and money in New Orleans after Katrina.

The actions of these people were stupid and illegal. They are paying a price for their stupidity and lack of common sense. I agree with Lyberty Belle, we need to first adopt the millions of American children who want and deserve a loving home and not foreign children. Charity begins at home.

[Jane]

They didn’t think that they needed passports to enter a foreign country… What morons!

[Jane]

Yes Obama... because Jesus only loves American children... and f*ck everybody else!

[AGF]

There are not "millions" of kids in the foster care system in the USA. There are about 500,000 or 600,000 which is still a lot. Not all of those are eligible for adoption - about 125,000 are, I think. However, a child in Haiti is 10 times more likely to die before age 5 than a child in the US. And yes, our foster care system is not perfect, but I think that most foster parents feed the children and give them a place to sleep. That is not always a given for children in Haiti.

As for these missionaries - ignorance of the law has never been a valid legal defense.

[Drasil]

Then maybe you wouldn't be recognized as a close runner up to the Taliban.

Posted by: Oldtimer | Tuesday, February 02, 2010 at 11:04 AM

Yeah, how dare we not send suicide bombers and set IED's. Then we could be just like the Taliban.

[Interested]

Chuck, if you think Baptists support the Catholic religion, you are naive. They just have to be careful about what they say about each other's religion because they consider themselves to both be "Christians". But if you look at most of the different "Christian" religions, they think they are the "true" Christian religion. Some even say you won't get into heaven unless you are baptized in their particular Christian religion. Check it out.

[Jane]

Catholics are way cooler... they can play cards, dance, drink alcoholic and still get to heaven!

[cripjak]

Aqua---The guy back row middle gets my vote for being a slaver. He cocks his head like he's had a mugshot taken before. (enlarge the pic)

[Chuck McRizzo]

Interested, my wife's baptist, I'm catholic.

And as far as checking anything about religion out, I have taken college courses on world religions.

[davey smith]

"Yup, the kind of idiots who go out of their way to spend their own money to do humanitarian aid and try to make a difference in the world, instead of sitting at home criticizing people on the Internet." Sean

You are referring to the Baptist kidnappers right? And if you try and call anyone who steals children different, then you are totally out of touch with reality.

Sorry Gee and Chuck, but oldtimers right. Religion and all the BS, hypocritical so-called christians who are full of hate and lies......it sucks.

Really it's 2010 and you still believe in cults? Can you not see god around you without the help of some perderast in a white collar?

[KC Cicero]

OK, nobody actually thinks these guys are slavers. That is simple paranoia. At worst, they were taking advantage of the chaos to try to do good by these kids.

Let us for a moment put political correctness aside. The reality is best expressed by those parents who apparently were interviewed: The best thing in the world for these kids would be to be adopted by American families -- even the nuttiest of the far right fringe of the Baptists. (It might also be good for that family to have and love a black kid from another culture, but that is another issue.)

The difference between growing up in abject poverty in Haiti and living a middle-class life in the USA is NOT marginal -- and no amount of romanticising the nobility of poverty can change its reality.

[Searching]

Huh, Obama is the man.. Hitler ruled under Catholicism.

[Oldtimer]

Obama,

The truly scary thing is that so many of you believe that the actions you perform in the name of your christian beliefs are justified, based on your idea of morality. You are wrong. My morality is every bit as accurate for me as yours is for you. The same goes for the Haitians, Somalis, eskimos, etc. The religious of the world do not have the right, or mandate, to inflict their views on others. My anger is that millions are dead all over the world throughout history due to religious expression, and misguided fervor. The rare positives that do come from religion do not create a balance for the negatives. Your god may be a brightly painted fire hydrant for all I care, as long as you elect to conduct your beliefs for your own benefit. When you attempt to bring your doctrine to bear on others, you lose your validity. When some anti-abortion zealot murders a man in his church, the zealot has not only defiled the law of the land, but has claimed in no uncertain terms, that no religion but his is worth respecting. This travesty, in Haiti, by a cultish group of people who choose to disregard all laws they don't personally agree with, leads me to believe that we are in for darker days than these. I fear that the Christian conservative movement will become an enemy of everything this country stands for.

[gee]

Old Timer--

Listen, I don't give a rat's arse about your God issues . . . I've got plenty of my own. Do you honestly think the actions of thes asshat's spell "darker days" for the USA?

You wrote, "My morality is every bit as accurate for me as yours is for you." Yes--relativism . . . works really well. How do you know my morality is as valid as yours? What if I felt morally justified to steal your stuff/wife/life? The assassin Roeder felt morally justified to murder. Why do right-thinking, sane individuals think he's wrong? Because morality exists, independent of what you or I think.

[Interested]

Chuck, so what that you have taken college courses on religion. And so what that your wife is B and you are C. Neither statement of yours changes the truth of my statement.

[Katwomansrevenge]

I don't think they were trying to kidnap on purpose , because what i heard was some of the parents gave them up for a better life, because they could not take of or feed them , parents put them on the bus . It was on CNN Wolf Blitzer parents backed up there story out of there own mouth . So i guess you could say parents were misinformed as to the laws of there own kids . I say ; stay out of 3rd world countries . Charity starts at home and we have needs here . Take care of our own first .

[Oldtimer]

Gee, why do you think that morality has anything to do with it? My argument is that religion is the driving force behind most people's morality, not their own personal, well-thought-out ideas of right and wrong. You are saying religion can't be blamed for the actions of these "asshat's". I beg to differ. Deference to the law based on religious conviction is the very core of my opinion. When people disregard law, based on religious conviction - that is anarchy.
Also, if you are having questions about your own beliefs, maybe you are one of those that is thinking too much. Bad move for following someone else's ideas.

[gee]

Old Timer--

The morality quote was written by you. I simply disagree.

Couldn't anarchy take the form of every individual coming-up with his/her own rules? Many immoral people have delivered "well thought out" justifications for their actions--doesn't make them moral, though.

Another argument for thought--the concept of civil disobedience. MLK and Ghandi both practiced non-violent "law-breaking" to protest laws they felt were unjust. Is that only acceptable to you as long as they did not violate the law because of some sort of religious conviction?

[Oldtimer]

Coming up with your own rules is not anarchy. Inflicting them on others in deference to the law is. By the way, comparing Ghandhi and Mr. King to Roeder and the Baptist child snatchers is ludicrous. Non violent resistence to what they saw as injustice couldn't possibly be compared to what these people have done. Refusal to submit to an "unjust" law is far different than violently inflicting your own on others.

[Interested]

Gee, MLK and Ghandi both were prepared to take the consequences of their actions. These folks who took the children in Haiti, it appears, are not prepared to do so since they are making up excuses for why they did what they did.

[Red]

How is it stupid, to be involved in wanting to help these children to get medical attention they deserve?
I see this alot, people try and make Christians look stupid for the efforts they put forth for anything.
Maybe some how they make themselves fell better, for doing nothing.
Christians should be bothered by this immature nonsense.

[gee]

Old Timer,

Easy, Big Fella--

No one compared anyone to anything. You wrote, "When people disregard law, based on religious conviction - that is anarchy." That's what got me thinking about civil disobedience. MLK certainly felt a religious conviction to do what he did. Do you celebrate his actions because you agree with him while at the same time thinking he was a doofus for buying into the whole "God thing?"

As for these people we've been discussing, they seem like morons. I also think, again, that you have God-issues, so you seize an opportunity to whine about religion because you spot a story featuring people who are alleged to have violated the laws of Haiti.

What rights/freedoms/etc. has some lawless religious person taken away from you?

[Interested]

Red, it is not difficult to make these Christians look stupid, if they indeed were unaware of any laws that the Haitian country may have against transporting minors out of their country. You can't even do that across state lines without breaking laws. Who doesn't know that?

[Oldtimer]

Gee, this will be my last post to you. First of all, I don't have god issues. I leave that to all those who feel the need for some mythical entity to guide their existence. My "whining" about religion is based on five thousand years of human history. I see no evil that has ever been exacted on Man to equal it. Many of us, who are growing in number, will quit "whining" about religion when it goes the way of the dinosaurs. We would all be better off without it, in any form, even yours.

[Iggy Pop]

Religion has no bearing here.

IQ's do though.