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September 07, 2005

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SaveFarris

I think it's safe to assume that "residents of 9th Ward would have agreed to evacuate", given that they all went to the SuperDome & Convention Center.

If you evacuate most of those people earlier, you alleviate the crowding issues there, which dramatically increases the ability of the local police & National Guard keep order.

(Dan Verbeck, the radio reporter I interviewed below, said that in many "hard-luck neighborhoods" he toured, people were not evacuating at all.--AB)

not a Bush fan, but...

First, some people criticize those trapped in the flooded zones, saying that they disregarded a mandatory evacuation and got what they deserved. Then others reasonably reply that, no that wasn't it, it was all the people too infirm or too poor to be able to get out of the city. Then the city's failure to use every available means at their disposal (e.g. school buses) comes to light, and it's justified by saying "Whoa, there were all sorts of people refusing to leave!" Those who refused to leave not only brought hardship upon themselves, but they made it harder to aid those who were truly stuck in the city, because they diluted the effectiveness of the finite resources available.

Another thing: in the event of a major catastrophe, the buses should be filled with people only. Are you saying that, when faced with a crowd of 50 people and their belongings, you'd let 25 on with their belongings and let the other 25 remain behind, rather than allow all 50 to board a bus and say goodbye to their material possessions? If so I hope you're not in charge of any evacuation I'm caught up in.

Different school buses are different lengths. The ones I saw flooded in New Orleans looked pretty long to me. How many rows there -- 15? 20? 25? At four people per row, with 350 buses that's somewhere between 20,000 and 35,000 people. Suppose you concentrated these efforts at the hospitals where the most vulnerable people were. Don't you think you could have spared some loss of life?

(NOTE: As I've said before, I am basing these estimates on actual reporting of evacuations that occurred after Katrina struck. I prefer that to looking at my TV and making judgments, a la Senator Frist and Terri Schiavo.--AB)

SarahJane

"I think it's safe to assume that residents of 9th Ward would have agreed to evacuate, given that they all went to the SuperDome & Convention Center. "

Uhh. Are you redefining "all"? If they "all" went to the Superdome and the Convention Center, then who were all those people being rescued from their roofs and attics, not to mention the ones floating down the streets?

brandon

If Nagin would have been unable to convince them to get on the buses, how exactly was the federal government supposed to do a better job of getting them out? Your argument is unconvincing.

Todd Elkins

The idea about loading people radomly unto the bus could be called laissez-faire disaster relief. This disaster was not just a failure in implementation, but a failure in planning. A coordinated effort from state, federal and local officials was needed. It seems all levels failed.

I thought the Daily Show also made a great point on how united the entire cabinet was now hard at work on the recovery *of the Administration's image.*

Dave O'Connell

Exactly how do you figure 10-20 people per bus? At one person plus belongings per seat, you should be able to get at least 30 people in, more if you tell them to take only what they can carry.

Then again, maybe these were all short buses. Does anyone know for sure? If they're not, it sounds like Aaron's come down with a case of that "fuzzy math" Bush used to talk about.

-Dave O'Connell

(Is anyone actually reading before commenting? I think I've said at least once, maybe twice, that it was reported as fact.--AB)

Jim Treacher

Since they couldn't have used the buses to get everybody out, it's okay that they didn't use them to get anybody out? Why even try, huh? Well, next time we'll know what to do!

Stop global warming: Check
Have the National Guard and FEMA follow hurricanes around so they can leap into action the instant the wind dies down: Check
Use local public transportation to get as many people out of danger as possible: No check

Also, there's some question whether the levees would have held even with all that federal funding, but I realize you're building a narrative here.

(Thank you for observing the No Hyperbole signs.--AB)

tc

The very fact that we are even discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the effort to evacuate by bus fails to address the deeper problems: obvious class and race based inequality, not to mention cutbacks of FEMA and failure to protect the coastline and shore of N.O. And then of course cutbacks in the budget of the Army Corps of Engineers. As to the more immediate questions, as to the proper responsibility for failure to evacuate, FEMA is ultimately responsible. Of course the mayor and state officials do what they can, and they did, but I believe that Gov. Blanco talked to Bush on Sunday night even and said that she needed 40000 troops. She realized that the levee was going to break and city and state resources were going to be inadequate to address the oncoming deluge. States don't have autonomous FEMAs precisely because this would create all kinds of organizational chaos. And the weather reports from NOAA had made clear that an overwhelming weather threat was approaching N.O. and BUsh saw this, I believe, back on Thursday-about the 24. FEMA knew (as much as they "knew" anything...) what was coming but they just didn't give a rat's azz.

Tom Neil

How exactly was Enron a major Bush disaster? Most of the scandal occurred when Clinton was president and it was Bush's Justice Department that prosecuted the crooks.

(The reader has a point--much as he would have a point if he said that Osama bin Laden did most of his terrorist planning during the Clinton years. The main difference being that Osama did not give money to W's election bid, we think.--AB)

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