This is an upgrade? Time Warner Navigator woes run rampant

It's been a rough year for customers of Time Warner Cable, Kansas City's leading cable provider and possibly the leader in TV-related headaches. Time Warner would like to apologize for that, and we would like to accept its apology -- mostly, though, we hope it's learned its lesson.

The trouble started in January, when Time Warner started “upgrading” people's set-top boxes with new software to control the on-screen guide, DVR recording and other features. And then there was the ongoing soap opera with the NFL Network, which wasn't Time Warner's fault (in my opinion) but still resulted in a lot of angry customers wondering why they couldn't get the Packers-Cowboys game Nov. 29. In between, a channel-changing snafu irked some fans of A&E (the channel, not the newspaper section).

Above all, though, there was the Navigator debacle. In January I wrote that Time Warner was rolling out a new menuing system for its cable boxes. I quoted a local spokesperson who said Navigator had been developed “so we can be more responsive to our customers.” Famous last words. Since then, customers have flooded Time Warner's help lines, and my mailbox, with horror stories of sitting down to watch a recorded show, only to discover their DVRs had been wiped clean by the new software. Others were put off by the new menuing system, or driven mad by the three-second response times each time they pressed a button on their remotes, or felt like they were in a car with bad brakes each time they tried to fast-forward through a show ... the list went on.

“I have never seen my wife so frustrated with anything, (and) that is an area where she usually counsels me in patience,” wrote Chad Colgan of Lenexa. On Aug. 28, Time Warner switched his HD-DVR to Navigator, erasing the entire fourth third season of “Battlestar Galactica,” which they were saving up for one of those viewing marathons that DVR users look forward to.

Two months later, when I checked in again with the Colgans, they were still having trouble. “When the DVR works we don't have many complaints,” said Colgan, “but the 50% of the time it hangs or freezes, like a slow computer, you want to yank it out of the wall.” Not only is he considering a switch to Everest, so is his brother-in-law. His cable hasn't been upgraded yet but is spooked by Colgan's tales of woe.

That's the kind of word-of-mouth damage Navigator can do to Time Warner's business, and not just in Kansas City. Its customers in Lincoln, Neb., also got “upgraded” this year, and the ensuing debacle led the city council there to pass a resolution calling for an investigation. The city's cable advisory board concluded that Time Warner had “beta-tested” Navigator on the unsuspecting people of Lincoln. (The AVS Forum's Navigator complaint thread scores high in Google search.)

I could go on: Jim Savage, HD-DVR customer, reports that “Navigator still gives me headaches as it is still incredibly slow, poor resolution, among other issues,” months after it was installed. Rebecca Tasler: “We had been so dissatisfied with the new Navigator software that my husband talked a tech into reinstalling the old Passport software system.” After that, recorded shows looked “horrible,” were heavily pixellated — what a surprise, my Passport-enabled box is suddenly doing the same thing. So now it’s not just Navigator.

Scott Simerly, who called my attention to the troubles in Nebraska, called Navigator’s interface “downright prehistoric. I fail to see any improvements in the functionality and the keyword search is horrible in comparison to the old system (Passport).”

And yet, the vast majority of people reading this are, according to Time Warner, having no problems at all. That's because they are using set-top boxes that have been tested with Navigator and work fine. The problem, says Damon Shelby Porter of Time Warner Cable Kansas City, is that there are some four dozen different cable box models in use around the area. And while Porter said Navigator has behaved well with “97 percent” of them, getting the software to behave with them all has been a bear.

“It was tested by our lab, it was tested by our employees in their homes but -- mea culpa -- it's really taken much longer for us to iron out the problems than we had hoped,” Porter said. “We're very frustrated.”

Not as frustrated as I was when I had to return my Navigatored HD-DVR to Time Warner for a replacement. To my relief, the new DVR hasn't been upgraded, because it's a different model and Time Warner has slowed the rollout of Navigator.

There was also that matter of Time Warner moving A&E to Channel 35 without telling anyone (although technically it did warn those of you who read the legal notices in the business section). Porter said a new process was put in place so future channel changes get better publicity.

And another thing — at some point, TWCKC pulled the plug on Turner Classic Movies' secondary audio (or SAP) channel. Time Warner hadn't gotten back to me by the time I filed this report, but a reader and I each independently confirmed you can't get the audio description of many TCM films offered on the SAP channel for viewers with visual disabilities. That feature should be available to everyone with cable, set-top box or not, and needs to be restored pronto.

Channels changing: On Jan. 1 Court TV, best known for launching Nancy Grace's career and for its gavel-to-gavel coverage of headline-grabbing trials, will become truTV (small “t”). Trials will still air during the day, but the channel's new owners -- what do you know, Time Warner again! -- will expand the evening lineup to include other types of mayhem besides criminal. Among its new series are “Sky Racers,” which will follow TV news choppers; and “One False Move,” focusing on people whose jobs or adventures take them to the edge of death.

Discovery is also rebooting two of its digital-tier channels in January. Discovery Times, which was launched in 2003 as a joint venture with the New York Times, petered out after three years. It's been quietly rebuilt around in-depth documentaries, and now the channel will be known as Investigation Discovery.

Planet Green is the new name of Discovery Home & Leisure, focusing on eco-friendly programming. You may have already heard of one program it's launching in 2008, “Greensburg Eco-Town,” which will document efforts in tornado-devastated Greensburg, Kan., to rebuild using environmentally friendly materials.

Meanwhile, another year has passed without a single international news channel being added to Time Warner's -- or Comcast's, or Everest's -- digital tiers. Al Jazeera, BBC World and France 24 are all there for the taking. This lack of public responsibility in a post-9/11 era is disheartening.

Comments

[Jean SmilingCoyote]

Notice that the "green rebuilding" of Greensburg KS does not put tornado-resistant construction as the top priority, despite what happened; notice paid journalists not asking/commenting about this glaring, stupid omission. Do check out Amvic ICFs and Monolithic Dome Institute options.

[Troy]

I've seen promos on BBCA asking viewers to demand BBCW... and there's even a Web site from BBCW that's supposed to help you push support for the channel... but, I'm wondering if that does any good.

[TheKCGuy]

Ugh. My box keeps crashing, sometimes losing my shows. I was thinking of trading it in, but now I'm not sure I want to if I'll get this Navigator thing. How do I know if my current box is the old or new software? I may not trade it in if I will be given something worse.

[kate]

I fought with TWC for almost a year about the box and the pixalating of our recorded and LIVE shows. When we moved earlier this year, we switched to Everest without a second thought. Plus, my husband is a Packer fan and I didn't want to be without NFL network if something like Dallas vs. Green Bay happened. Everest is a hometown company that cares. You call for help and a live human in KC answers the phone, is courteous and solves the problem. We won't go back to TWC without something dire having happened first!

[JetRanger]

This ia a Typical Example of how CORPORATE AMERICA runs its business, Yet they won't hire anybody without a college degree and are supposed to be experienced ! So whats that college degree doing for them now, how about actually employing people that know what the sam hell their doing ! These CORPORATE IDIOTS that work in the CORPORATE OFFICE are so pathetically CLUELESS, its Sicking, and they know nothing other than how to give you the customer Rhetoric ! Cable companies were way better, before they Time Warner Cable went around buying up all the small cable companies, and they had the nerve to appear before congress and tell them they could offer better service and programming if the industry was deregulated - Simply put "Bull-Sh** !!!!

[PlazaJen]

Wow, I'm a little depressed now, as I sit here anticipating yet another service call tomorrow from Time Warner Cable, purportedly to "fix" all of the problems you've listed. I'm in that 3% you're referencing - and, I've changed out the box THREE times. You'd think my odds would've improved. It took an end-run around the general customer service number to get this appointment tomorrow...at least I :have: the connections to get someone's attention - the hold times are atrocious, and for the first time ever, I considered going to satellite. (Now's the time for those folks to advertise!)

Given how much TWC charges? I think they owe their very frustrated Kansas City customers more than an apology.

[monikhr]

Some of you seem to have an over abundance of vitriole regarding TV. Its TV folks, not life or death or taxes or your family members. Its simply entertainment, and mostly mediocre entertainment at that. Although I have never worked for TWC, I'm hard pressed to consider that TWC execs are sitting around and pondering whether there are future ways to make user experiences frustrating to the point of bursting a blood vessel. TWC, like all cable companies, are very hard pressed to meet financial margins, and I'm guessing the path to better profits is not to roll out products and services that add complication to peoples lives. So, take a breath, make sure you've had your coffee or whatever kick starts your day, and go read to your kids, talk to a friend, do a crossword. Its just TV, not the next greatest thing since sliced bread.

[Dewey]

Monikhr-- that's all well and good, but when you pay for something and it doesn't work, you get rather annoyed. Numerous attempts to fix it fail. That's why people are angry.

Almost no one in the US knows this ... but.
Just as you no longer have to rent a telephone from
"Ma Bell" - it is legal to connect a recording device to your cable line.
If you travel to Asia make certain to visit an electronics store.
You can *buy* a DVR which *will* work with your local cable. Most stores and models provide charts to set for TWarner. Comcast and even if your local *dictated* provider isn't listed. you just install as you used to do with a "cable ready" VCR.
Even more silly. many LG (brand) large screen TVs have this built in, but ones sold in the US have the circuitry glued shut (!).

[Aaron Barnhart]

Dewey, it's a rule that every thread on TV Barn MUST have at least one contribution from a reader reminding us that "it's only TV," which always comes as a great relief to the rest of us, because then we can get on with our lives thanks to the generous contributions of this wise, humble reader who deigns to come down from Mount Smartytude and bequeath us with their wisdom.

[James B.]

Time Warner switched his HD-DVR to Navigator, erasing the entire fourth season of “Battlestar Galactica,” which they were saving up for one of those viewing marathons that DVR users look forward to.

Good trick since the 4th season hasn't even aired yet.

[Kevin]

I use a Tivo Series 3 with 2 cable cards from Time Warner. It sounds like my experience is way better than the Navigator experience (the tivo interface is so much better) but I still have time-warner issues:

none of the digital west coast premium channels (the ones ending in P) work. TNTHD doesn't work. HBOHD and MAXHD work most of the time, but occasionally disappear. I called these issues in and they typically do a card reset which fixes the HBO and MAX HD issues but none of the others. The P channel issue was a "known" issue and was being worked on (months ago.)

As for Discovery digital channels -- where the heck is Mythbusters in HD, every episode says it's also avaialable in HD, but what channel.

[JetRanger]

One thing I don't like about TIME Warner is, if theres a Storm, and your cable goes out, and you have your internet, and tv cable and your PHONE thru them, you lose EVERYTHING, NO PHONE- NO CABLE and NO INTERNET, I can live without TV and Internet for a few days, but a PHONE is essential, I ended up having to buy a cell phone (cheapy) as a back up, in case they go off line,, so I can atleast call out in case of an emergency,, other wise, your up a creek with no phone should your house catch fire or have a medical emergency, its only happend about 3 times since I've had them,, and not for more than a day,, but still !!!

[Jimmy]

Wow, I thought the "SARA" interface on Everest was primitive... This sounds worse. My neighbor is getting the ATT U-verse installed in a couple of weeks... Im going to check it out and switch if it looks good and the Internet is fast.

[Chad C]

No "trick" James B., it was 3rd season of Battlestar Galactica that got erased. I was recording them as they replayed on Sci-fi.

My mistake though, I was off on the season I told Aaron since I caught the first two on DVD they kind of run together...

[soon to be ex TW customer]

TW's cutomer service has also gone way down hill. We have more trouble with Roadrunner than cable. And we made TWO appointments just last week to have a tech come by to fix it. No one came EITHER time.

I am calling Everest tomorrow. I'd rather take one more day off of work to have them come and install a working product than have TW set an appointment they don't intend to keep.

[Annoyed]

I've cancelled my TWC again because they can't seem to fix these issues. Wish I could get my DirectTV hooked back up, but there is a tree in the way at the apartment complex...if the wind blows, it goes out, if there is ice, it goes out, and they keep insisting it's the INSIDE wiring??? WTF???

[JetRanger]

One of the things TIME WARNER did when they took over was to get rid of many of their Company Techs, and use whats known as outside Contractors, thats where you use you personel vehicle, and work for TWC, as a contractor, and they base pay on how many customers you service, thats where the problem started, when these CEOs and upper management thought of a ludricious way, they could enrich their salaries at the expense of every one else, the customer service went to the dogs, they'll learn you get what they pay for !!!! You can bet tho, that the CEO is getting his bonus and salary raise !! I'd FIRE him in a heartbeat too, with out compensation !!!!!!

Just thought I'd clear up a lot of misinformation as I am reading this. TimeWarner's problems are related to none other than FCC regulation. (indirectly)
1: To make room for all of the crap we want from them they have to cram it all on the same wire--that old coax. This requires zipping up channels and piping them down the wire and unzipping them on top of the tv and playing them across the HD wires that feed the box.
THATS THE OLNY PURPOSE OF THE BOX!

So when they move channels around--the only goal is to keep a channel lineup on basic (no box) tvs somewhat watchable, while improving the lineup in the digital tiers (not the HD stuff)

One 2009 gets here---all basic signals will end up being dumped and all of the boxes (navigator (TWC), or SARA (Everest) or even Direct TV and Uverse (AT&T)) will have to be reflashed ___Guaranteed to loose all recorded programs_____

The format will change form an MPeG2 and Mpeg3 to an Mpeg4 Which allows more compression--ie more channels

2: inside coax really matters--its just mother nature. So if you sh*t is old--buck up and replace it. If your tech is just unqualified and lazy---that's another issue. New signals require better fittings/wire/ and upgraded splitters.

3' Contractors were introduced as an option for the fast installation of new products. They are not a cheaper way by any means for the companies--in fact they bring on a whole new division required to manage and quality control. Contractors also relieve the "pay for nothing" problem in today's corporate america---they don't add to it---So please don't merge the two. Contractors are there because they don't fit the corporate mold.

4: It's just TV---well sort of.

It's TV
It's Internet
It's Telephone
It's Voice over IP
It's DVR
It's Cramming all of your communication on one piece of wire that's been in your house for nearly 30 years.

So Relax people. When a Box doesn't work correctly it probably you house's fault. I am not saying it's not the responsibility of the company whose sticking you with the highes FCC allowable rates--but more that if you want the high quality product that the boxes are designed to provide--your house may have to go through a little bit of an upgrade before you can pass blame.

BTW
I am not affiliated with any company
I have had Time Warner--Seemed intermittent
I have Had Direct TV (HD Tive) Best one ever
I have Had Comcast (Worst Product ever (olathe)
I have Had ATT's Uverse--pretty cool Best of all wired services.
I switched back to DTV HD for The TIVO!

It all boils down to the Installation. TIP the Cable guy and enjoy years of Good Watching!

[Annoyed]

OK, I HAVE new wiring...and an amp...and it's still my wiring inside according to to them...

[Mark Jeffries]

If "Mythbusters" isn't on Discovery HD Theater, an HD simulcast of the mainline channel has started (they're also doing one of TLC--don't know about Animal Planet). Most likely, TWC isn't offering it yet--Comcast is rolling it out on its systems in the new year.

[Aaron]

I've been making that counting error with Battlestar ever since that weird-ass "Season 2.5."

[Alex]

I am tired of rebooting my Navigator box from Time Warner every week. You call and they tell you they will send out a tech to check the same cable connectors that the previous tech looked at. Customer service is horrible. After 32 years of being a loyal Time Warner customer, I will be leaving for Everest or Uverse. I would not even consider staying if they offered the service for free.

[Steve]

Only 3% of the customers are complaining???? Why is it Time Warner that everyone on my block continues to have issue with their cable boxes? Every week I see new error codes being displayed. What is frustrating is the customer service folks have no idea what the error code means.

Why don't you post something on your Website that gives us some "real" information on what is going on? Maybe after you see a reduction of 30% of your loyal customers go someplace else you will realize that 3% was something fabricated. I am tired of unplugging, rebooting, calling, and waiting for techs.

Good by TIme Warner Cable!

[Frustrated]

Are any other Tivo users having issues with timer recordings since the "upgrade" to Navigator? Before the change we never had any problems with our recordings, but since we were upgraded last week the channel doesn't change about half the time. We've changed settings, repositioned IR sensors, everything we can think of and nothing helps.