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November 10, 2005

Why would he lie?

One question keeps gnawing at me. Why would Lewis Libby, a successful and politically astute attorney, lie to a grand jury? It doesn’t make sense.

Although I watched Patrick Fitzgerald’s recent press conference, it didn’t come to me until I read the printed transcript. Near the end he stated that he had his indictment ready in October of 2004, but because Libby had testified that he had gotten his Plame information from reporters, he couldn’t wind it up until this summer.

So I can’t help wondering if he lied intentionally with the hope of delaying the case until after his bosses were re-elected. I guess we won’t know until the case goes to trial. If he’s convicted, I’ll bet there’s a big, fat presidential pardon waiting for him.

Martha Taylor



I don't know why lazy and crazy liberals keep insisting that Christians believe the world was created in 7 days.

There's not a single Christian who believes that.

If anyone would bother to read the first two chapters of the Bible, he or she will learn that God created the world in 6 days. On the seventh day He rested.



I don't place my faith in you, Bush, or Pat Robertson. I've got my own Bible and have no problem checking the quotes myself. I'm satisfied that the Biblical creation myth in Genesis 1 took seven days.


Ray Seay

On this subject take it on faith, it will not evolve differently.
If Pat Robertson, Hajkar, or anyone else tells you to bet your house against me on whether something is in the bible, do not do it. You will be homeless. Pat Robertson is not God or His spokesman. Neither am I, A True Christian knows and correctly quotes. Doctrine. I have another bet if anyone is interested.
I am trying to direct extended exchanges into unused sectioms(threads???)


Yep. Just pulled out my bible and checked. Shouldn't have bothered. Seven days of creation in first chapter of Genesis. Chapter 2 starts off with "And on the seventh day God rested."

Perhaps we should keep the religion discussion in a more on-topic thread. :-)


Ray Seay-

"It was once scientific mainstream to teach the world was flat."

Science proved that theory to be wrong.

"160 years ago in northwest Mo. it was mainstream to murder any professing Morman."

Thankfully, we have become more enlightened since then.

Your point?

Ray Seay

Hajkar; Near timeto eat Two quick points. More later if you wish.
It was once scientific mainstream to teach the world was flat. 160 years ago in northwest Mo. it was mainstream to murder any professing Morman.



I may be an atheist but my grasp of the Christian doctrine is not non-existant. In fact, I was raised as a Catholic and attended more than 1 parochial school, including KC's Rockhurst HS. Although my grasp of certain specifics about the bible may be suspect, you are simply blowing smoke to deny that a referance to '7 days' is not a part of mainstream Christian cathechism. Nothing presented in the cartoon can be any way construed as a 'lie'.


Mr. Seay, in the context of a political cartoon, I would consider it to be exaggeration. I cite today's cartoon by Dick Wright as an example.

Ray Seay

the one below is actually a response to you

Ray Seay

Teach only the truth
There is a difference between hyperbole or exaggeration and LIES.
If the cartoon had shown Darwin introducing an ape as his grandfather, would that have been an exaggeration or a lie about basic evolution theory?
Posted by: Ray Seay | Nov 12, 2005 12:52:47 PM

How do you explain the creation story?
Posted by: hajkar | Nov 12, 2005 1:29:51 PM

I do not. Jesus did and as he was an eyewitness to it I accept his sworn testament.


Ray Seay

to quote a man I admire(mostly) but often(not always) disagree with:
“Why are we discussing science in this thread?
Posted by: hajkar | Nov 11, 2005 3:46:06 PM “
To respond anyway.
Metaphorical days would actually prove evolution. Fundamentalist means literal
Metaphorical days works for explanation, interpretation, not doctrine.
in 7 days.(creation) is no 6 days of creation. Rest is not work.
Fundamentally you lose, Metaphorically you get it Metaphorically.
I admit it was a trick point but it was in response to a dishonest editorial. On the 7th day God rested is basic knowledge.

Ray Seay

General comment;
The real question is did he lie. The second is how important was what he may or may not have lied about. Do not lie does not only refer to lying under oath. Should every politican who lies be removed. If so we would truly have a theocracy.
Pat Robertson misquoted Christrian doctrine and said something stupid. Limited to this one instance I agree he is a kook. By definition a kook cannot be a true Christian or quoted as Christian doctrine.



"My point was that it was not relevant as to whether he shoulds be impeached."

I didn't ask the question. Yet the question was asked and Clinton had little choice but to respond. His silence would have surely been used against him as much as the lie.

How is 7 days incompatible with the creation story that is commonly taught in metaphorical days with God resting on the sabbath. Not a distortion. A simplification.

The depiction of God as a larger than life man with a beard is too commonly accepted to be seen as a distortion of any kind.

(hopes that third try is a charm)

You can send me your salary through the mail.

Itr is your turn to demonstrate how the carftoon should be seen as distorted.

How do you explain the creation story?

Ray Seay

Teach only the truth
There is a difference between hyperbole or exaggeration and LIES.
If the cartoon had shown Darwin introducing an ape as his grandfather, would that have been an exaggeration or a lie about basic evolution theory?

Ray Seay

ON Mr. Clinton;
My point was that it was not relevant as to whether he shoulds be impeached.
My point was misrepresentation of Christian doctrine, not images. That Christrian critics do not know even basic doctrine, yet the speak.
in 7 days.(creation)not in the book you cited(thus proving my point)
I keep the money



The representation of God in art is not what defines the tenets of the faith systems such a symbol stands for.

7 days refers to the Genesis story. Goes something like.... "On the first day....". I can find no good reason to reject that as part of Christian doctrine.

By definition, an atheist can not be fundamentalist.

Did Mr. Clinton really have the option to remain silent? He should have told the truth.

Ray Seay

Hajkar or anyone;
Challenge still open;
A big guy(God)
with a white beard(God)
in 7 days.(creation)
Show me any of these stated in the bible and I will eat that Bible and open an atheist website.
I will add 1 year of my salary to the pot. Just tell me which biblical book it is in. A fundamentalist atheist should welcome a free website.
Hajkar; On your comment about Mr Clinton, he should have remained silent rather than lie.


Ray Seay wrote:

" I do not vote because both parties COMMENTS ARE AT THE ASSININE LEVEL. I think we can do better. Neither dems or reps
are angels or devils. Neither are we but I see some horns budding out but no growing halos."

Talk about prejudging.


OK Engineer-

I misspoke-

Telling a lie and getting caught are not the same as being convicted of a crime. Lets discuss the level of the real and alleged lies or whether Mr. Clinton should ever have been put in a position where he felt the need to lie about a personal matter.


Chris40- You might think about re-reading Ms. Taylor's letter. She says such things as "wondering if he lied intentionally", "we won't know until his case goes to trial", "if he's convicted". She doesn't jump over any "hurdles" as you assert. Your entire premise is inaccurate. Rather, she asks some interesting questions. I'm anxious to get some answers.

Ray Seay-It's a political cartoon...it's supposed to be hyperbole and exaggeration. Stop it with this assertion that we evolutionists are trashing Christians. If my church finds out about it, they won't let me teach Sunday School anymore.

Engineer-I know this will seem petty, but the word is indictment.

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