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February 03, 2006

Let’s compare

To the people who incessantly attack the president for his “lack of truthfulness” and the scandals of his administration or the Republican Party: Either you have a short memory or you just can’t recall how corrupt the previous administration was.

The Clinton administration claimed it was going to be an ethical administration. Right. Clinton was impeached for lying under oath, and the headlines were filled with scandal after scandal.

Do you remember what led to the Democrats’ losing control of Congress? The House banking scandal and Dan Rostenkowski going to jail were just the tip of the iceberg.

I laugh out loud when I read comments such as, “I cannot recall any administration so steeped in alleged corruption and scandal as those currently in power” (1/28, Letters). Eddie Clay should take off his partisan glasses or go back and study the history of the Clinton administration and the 40 years the Democrats controlled Congress.

Kirk C. Klingler
Fayette, Mo.


Ray Seay

MONICA LEWINSKI Cisneros Perjury

A partisan, dumb attack= ==all democrats are angels; all republicans are devils.

the so-called Clinton scandals were created out of whole cloth by a Republican spin machine.
the so-called Bush scandals were created out of whole cloth by a Democrat spin machine.

The Republican attempt to bring down Clinton was well-documented
The Democrat attempt to bring down Bush was well-documented

the crimes and misdeeds of the Bush administration and the Republican House.
the crimes and misdeeds of the Clinton administration and the Democrat House

this vast right-wing conspiracy against Clinton
this vast left-wing conspiracy against Bush.

Charges and headlines are not proof against either side.

all democrats are angels; all republicans are devils
all republicans are angels; all democrats are devils

This is why I am an atheist on politics and do not vote.


Reading all this makes me laugh.

For some reason, there are still people with the delusion that the most powerful person in the world who is for some reason responsible for the actions of hundreds of subordinates will make it through eight four years without someone being able to dredge up something that resembles a scandal. Sounds to me like you all need to pinch yourselves and wake up. It has nothing to do with who is responsible or even justifying it by saying that the previous administration was worse. Bush could sit and twiddle his thumbs for four years and the left would want to impeach him for not doing his job (anyone remember his first 8 months?). Then God forbid he do something and they want to impeach him because they disagree with that.

Bush's actions have reprecussions on billions of people. He is held personally responsible for the actions of the military (all million and a half of them). He is responbsible for the largest budget in the world (even though Congressmen are the ones that formulate it). Give him a break. Honestly, I think I have as low an opinion of him as you can. I have never voted for him. I am glad that he will likely never hold another public office. But he is a president and the most highly scrutinized person in the world. There is no one that could pass through this office unscathed.


I disagree with "moral" that BF "fished" out of Kirk's letter. Both BF and Viet-Vet's comments are examples of the point that Kirk actually did make in his letter and that is that Democrats view corruption of the respective parties through rose-colored glasses. If W (or any other Republican for that matter) lied under oath (whether it was related to an extramarital affair or not) or pardoned people for pay, rented out the Lincoln bedroom, innappropriately used FBI files or was potentially linked to a "suicide" in the White House, then I doubt BF or Viet-Vet would be minimizing those actions as they did in their comments.

I'll be the first to admit that Pubs are guilty of the same (which is point that Kirk didn't make).


Brian Ford has implied a very good idea, we should move on and do better. Ray has certaintly receited a long list of wrongs on both sides. There is a point to be made, however, in that Lobyists can fill a useful role. There are lobyists representing a huge variety of interests, not only corporations. The can be useful sources of information to Legislators and in that way serve the public interest.


So, at best, the moral the letter writer has fished out is: It's okay for us to do it because the Democrats did it.

If, as the letter writer believes, the Democrats lost power due to scandal and corruption; shouldn't the current Republican majority attempt to avoid that trap? Do they learn nothing from the mistakes of those with whom they disagree?

It seems that they look at is as though it's their turn to be corrupt.

(And this ignores the belief held by many that the Clinton scandals were feathers compared to the brick of the Bush administration. Only in America does it matter if our President is having marital issues.)


Now we have the new, improved majority leader. The man who publically braggs about "being in tight" with the lobyists. The man who has openly passed out brib...er, ah...donation checks on the floor of the House.

I give you, Mr. Boenher. It would be really ironic if his name was pronounced the way it is spelled.


The lapses of the Clinton administration were largely misdemeanors blown up to look like felonies by the Right Wing noise machine. People like Richard Melon Scaife, Sun Myung Moon and Rupert Murdoch spent millions to create an impression of scandal where there was none. There was constant blather from the Right about "character" and "integrity" to divert Americans from the real issues. Congress spent a decade, and more than $100 million investigating the Clintons and their appointees. Those investigations yielded a handful of convictions of fringe figures for minor transgressions. And, oh yeah, Clinton fell into a perjury trap by lying about getting a blowjob from an intern.

I can't think of anything Bush has NOT lied about. 9/11, Iraq, Medicare, homeland security, hurricane relief, his military "service," ... the list goes on and on. But I could forgive all that if Bush and his cronies were simply COMPETENT.

But the fact is, Bush, Cheney and their appointees are fumbling incompetents. They have proved over and over again that they can get elected, but that's the full extent of their skill. They cannot govern.


Thanks Ray. Kind of proves they are all crooks doesn't it?

Anyway, it appears once again that the, "everybody else did it" defense is in play. Once again, the current bunch is not responsible for their actions. Always some one elses fault, ain't it?

Ray Seay

so what is new?????????????????????????

1946 - 1974
Department of Justice tax scandal (1951-1952) leading to the firing or forced resignations of 166 employees of the agency; investigations were widely regarded as a systematic cover-up for high-level wrongdoing
Bobby Baker (1963) aide to LBJ was involved with underworld figures
Adam Clayton Powell, Jr. of New York expelled from Congress (1967) but re-elected anyway

Supreme Court Associate Justice Abe Fortas resigns in financial scandal (1969) that emerged during his nomination to become Chief Justice
Pentagon Papers (1971)
Watergate scandal (1972-1973)
Nixon Jewelry (1974) Violation of Foreign Gifts and Decorations Act of 1881, as amended in 1966.
Spiro T. Agnew scandal (1973)

Nixon Pardon by President Ford (1974)

1975 - 1999
"Lancegate": President Carter's OMB Director Bert Lance resignation amidst allegations of misuse of funds (1977)
Jimmy Carter's Chief of Staff Hamilton Jordan target of special prosecution (beginning 1979)
"Billygate": President Jimmy Carter's brother Billy Carter was found to be a paid agent of the government of Libya (1980); ensuing scandal did not help President Carter's bid for re-election in 1980
Abscam (1980)
"Debategate": briefing book of President Jimmy Carter stolen and given to Ronald Reagan campaign before 1980 presidential election debate in Cleveland, Ohio (1980)
October Surprise (1980)
Iran-Contra affair (1985-1986)
Savings and loan scandal and the Keating Five (1980-1989): Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, Don Riegle, John Glenn, and John McCain
Preferential treatment for military contractor Wedtech implicates Attorney General Edwin Meese and White House aide Lynn Nofziger (1987)
President George H.W. Bush's pardon of 6 Iran-Contra affair figures on his last day in office ( January 20, 1993), days before the perjury trial of Casper Weinberger was scheduled to begin.
Travelgate (1993)
The evident suicide (1993) of White House lawyer Vince Foster, together with accusations that documents from Foster's office relating to an investigation had disappeared mysteriously, fueled scandalous speculations, including the widely publicized suggestion (dismissed by investigators) that Foster's death had not been suicide.
White House Coffees and Lincoln Bedroom sales -- political donations linked to access to President Clinton, including the apparent sale of "coffees" with him, and what amounted to the renting out of the Lincoln Bedroom.
Filegate -- Misuse of FBI resources by White House Security Chief under President Bill Clinton, allegedly to compile an enemies list (1996); investigation found insufficient evidence of criminal wrongdoing
Secretary of Agriculture Michael Espy forced to resign from office despite ultimate acquittal on criminal corruption charges (1998)
Labor Secretary Alexis Herman investigated (1998) in connection with alleged illegal fundraising and other financial improprieties, ultimately cleared (2001)
Bruce Babbitt, Interior Secretary, independent probe (1998-2000) of alleged lying to Congress concerning influence of money in 1995 American Indian tribe casino decision finds no criminally prosecutable perjury by Babbitt
Vice-President Al Gore (1998) allegations of improper fundraising and "no controlling legal authority" defense
Whitewater scandal (1994-2000)
Teamstergate Ron Carey's and Bill Clinton's 1996 campaigns for the Presidency of the union and the United States, respectively, swapped Teamsters' Union general treasury funds into Clinton's campaign, for Clinton Campaign funds into Ron Carey's campaign warchest. The Teamsters' political director was jailed. No Clinton officials were charged. Carey's re-election was invalidated; James Hoffa, Jr. was elected when Teamsters election was rerun.
Henry Cisneros resigns as Housing Secretary and, after lengthy probe that began in 1995, pleads guilty (1999) to lying to the FBI about money he paid former mistress Linda Medlar a.k.a. Linda Jones; later pardoned by President Clinton in 2001 (Possibly reclassify or cross-reference to Sex scandal)
Pardongate (1999 - 2001) -- Bill Clinton appeared to write out pardons, during his lame duck tenure, in response to massive contributions linked to the pardoned. This included a scandal which has become traditional for departing presidents; the sudden flurry of pardons during the final month in office, which would probably not have been deemed tolerable at any other time.

2000 -
Yellowcake forgery false evidence presented in case for 2003 invasion of Iraq (2003); related Valerie Plame affair (2004), eventually implicating White House aides Scooter Libby (indicted 2005) and Karl Rove
Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse scandal (2004-2005)
Former Clinton administration National Security Advisor Sandy Berger pleads guilty (2005) to unlawfully removing classified documents from the National Archives in October 2003

Bush administration payment of columnists including Armstrong Williams, Maggie Gallagher

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