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August 23, 2006

Global warming

There is disagreement

There has been a tremendous amount of energy and emotion put forth concerning global warming. Activists portray the science as being absolute and irrefutable.

The truth is not quite so convenient. Years of scientific review and documentation exist to counter these wild assertions.

Indeed, an investigative article dated June 7 in the National Post of Canada provides details and reports from scientific authorities outside the United States on the subject. Go to www.canada.com/nationalpost/ and search for "The gods are laughing." The article is by Tom Harris.

Emotional activists are not likely to be swayed by the facts.

Jim Gray
Lee's Summit

Planet is threatened

Talk about fiddling while Rome burns. Wars are occurring in many places; land and infrastructures being destroyed; untold numbers are being killed and maimed - not only soldiers but civilians, including children. All of these insane wars will have done nothing but bring greater disaster on the countries involved.

All the while, as this insanity is going on, there is a threat that is our common cause, one that could make this planet uninhabitable for our grandchildren and great-grandchildren. If global warming goes unchecked, we are leaving the future generations a horrible reality.

Could we wake up? Must history always repeat itself? It is our choice.

Louann Stahl
Kansas City

Comments

Jim Satterfield

Sammy, the disturbing thing about glacial retreat and melting of ice caps is the change in the rate of melting, not the simple fact that it's taking place. That rate has increased drastically in the recent past with no other factor that could account for the rate of increase.

Jim Satterfield

cosmos pointed out realclimate as a good source for accurate information on the issue. The claims that Mr. Harris pushes concerning the "hockey stick" are pushed so hard they earned their own section on the site. See:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=11

Jim Satterfield

Al Gore is not anything like Harris the lobbyist. In spite of what Mr. Harris claims an actual impartial polling of climate scientists shows that they agree with the overwhelming majority of the facts that Gore cites in the film. This does not make him like Harris.

kcstar_is_one_sided

It is so easy to label.

Republicans are Nazis.

Christian fundamentalists are are the same as Muslim extremists.

France is only good at surrendering
(well that one is really true ;)

It's really tiresome. My point is you can say whatever you want, of course, but comparing Christian fundies to Muslim fundies and barbaric behavior propogated by each group, in today's world, at this time in history, and proving like conduct with real statistics is not possible. The muslim fundies in the middle east win hands down.

//not a christian fundie

kcstar_is_one_sided

"one-sided... still waiting for an answer

do you put your garbage out on the curb each week to be picked up, or do you just dump it in some empty lot? Just wondering, since pollution doesn't seem to have any affect on your planet....

if you are consistent in your 'pollution doesn't matter stance', you must dump and litter...

Posted by: Kansasdog "

Kansasdog -

Please continue to wait, because your question is a stupid one which makes no sense from my observation about propoganda from both sides of the global warming debate.

Because I choose not to answer such a nonsensical question does not make you victorious in the debate.

What could be more consistent than saying
"As I stated in a recent thread regarding the same issue, (and then had CRD jump down my throat) be careful of the propoganda from both sides. Al Gore is to one side what Tom Harris is to the other."?

still waiting for an answer...

Kansasdog

one-sided... still waiting for an answer

do you put your garbage out on the curb each week to be picked up, or do you just dump it in some empty lot? Just wondering, since pollution doesn't seem to have any affect on your planet....

if you are consistent in your 'pollution doesn't matter stance', you must dump and litter...

openmind

Christian bombers are only into killing others. Its only been a decade, how can you forget?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence


There was also the whole thing at Waco, and a while back .

Then there is that wonderful Christian Extremeist Mr. Robertson:
"I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don’t think any oil shipments will stop."

Cant you just feel the love? Those Christians are a peaceful lot, huh?

While none of these are "suicide bombers" they are still killing people. When you say you havent seen any Christian suicide bombers lately, you are putting two restrictions which inherently limit it.

First, suicide bombing is for a lot of Muslims is the only means of recourse since they have no real weapons. I could have easily said "I havent seen any Muslim terrorists dropping bombs from airplanes onto residential areas" Which of course would be true but wouldnt be a fair representation of what I am trying to say.

You also limit it to lately, which ignores the violent Christian past (I really want someone to make a movie about the crusades which paints Christians in a blood thirsty light).

In the end, it seems as though you are trying to compare the capacity for violence of the extreme portion of two different groups, but then go on to use an example of violence which inherently excludes one group.

Those in the Muslim world could easily confuse the actions of Americans with the actions of "Christians" and think that Christians are pretty violent themselves.


kcstar_is_one_sided

whispering_to_kc -

Great link. Didn't see anything about suicide bombers in it though. Perhaps you could point it out. No, I guess you can't, because it has nothing to do with suicide bombers.

My point still stands. Your argument is overstated.

whispering_to_kc

"I haven't heard of any Evangelical suicide bombers lately."

No, we haven't.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/03/AR2005050301499.html

kcstar_is_one_sided

"Evangelicals, not evangicals. Yeah, our Bible thumpers are just as scary as their Koran thumpers. Both seem to be working off the same script."

Funny, I haven't heard of any Evangelical suicide bombers lately.

whispering_to_kc

And what are a few nukular secrets among old friends?

The Iranian terrorists got their start in the nukular business back in the seventies. Started along by Gerald Ford and his men, Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney. After pressure from GE and all in the name of just good global business and propping up the Shah.

Too smart for our own good, sometimes. But not paying attention helps it all make sense to the faithful rightwingnuts.

Evangelicals, not evangicals. Yeah, our Bible thumpers are just as scary as their Koran thumpers. Both seem to be working off the same script.

kcstar_is_one_sided

KansasDog -
"never claimed AG was my hero, just looking for a little consistency on your stand."

What could be more consistent than saying
"As I stated in a recent thread regarding the same issue, (and then had CRD jump down my throat) be careful of the propoganda from both sides. Al Gore is to one side what Tom Harris is to the other."

Perhaps you should look up the consistency in the dictionary, you don't understand what it is.

cosmos

Sammy: "They have bigger fear of the earth heating up by a degree over the next 100 years."

Enjoying your scientific ignorance, and escape from reality?
The predicted warming of several degrees is a GLOBAL average.
Most of the rise will occur at northern latitudes, and the Arctic is already quickly warming up.

Sammy: "They don't seem to comprehend that the ice has been receding for pretty much all of this interglacial period."

No, we comprehend BOTH the very slow natural melting, AND the much faster melting caused by humans adding greenhouse gases.

Are you too scared of terrorists to do some research?

'Greenland Ice Loss Doubles in Past Decade, Raising Sea Level Faster'
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2006-023

'Polar bears drown as ice shelf melts'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1938132,00.html

'Residents Seek To Move Town As Melting Ice Sends Sea Creeping In'
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/22/eveningnews/main1926055.shtml

'Human influences'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change

Sammy

Tom - These guys put much faith into global warming dogma. So much so that they believe global warming is a bigger threat than terrorists.

All you have to do to work up their lather is show them a picture of a melting ice cube. They don't seem to comprehend that the ice has been receding for pretty much all of this interglacial period. Well before humans started industrialization over the last several thousand years the ocean levels rose enough to cover land bridges between Asia/Australia and Russia/US.

But, tell them terrorists want them dead now simply because they don't believe in the terrorists' prophet and they think we should grab a cup coffee and hash it out with them. Maybe even share a few nuclear secrets with them to put them on more equal footing. Tsk..tsk, we wouldn't want an unfair advantage in a conflict, would we? They have bigger fear of freedom-loving "evangicals" than of totalitarian terrorists. They have bigger fear of the earth heating up by a degree over the next 100 years. They don't seem to realize that a few nukes will do much more damage to the environment.

cosmos

Some more background on Tom Harris and his "scientific authorities" (sic) at http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2006/06/an_embarrassment_to_australian.php

If you want accurate GW info, read the site run by currently active climate scientists: http://www.realclimate.org

whispering_to_kc

"They may be clients of High Park, the company he works for, but he has no business with them."

Uh huh.

Right.

Anything you say.

Together with the tobacco, alcohol and arms (the merchants of death) lobbyists you're only trying to do the right thing for all of the rest of us.

(Giggle, snort, snort!)

jack

I did read far enough to find out the writer has "no connection to...".

Call me a cynic but isn't that what all those people were saying about Jack Abramoff? That they had no connection?

jack

OMG! If you are going to write a book, write it! That way I can ignore it at Borders instead of having to scroll through it here for the same purpose.

openmind

I think he is pro making the globe warmer, but against believing in it.

Kate

I only get a 15-minute break in the afternoon. Sum it up, Tom, are you for or against global warming?

 
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