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November 14, 2007

Crisis in Pakistan

Let’s see, Pakistan’s President Pervez Musharraf suspends the constitution, cancels the election, jails his opposition, and brings in the army to clamp down on civil liberties. Dick Cheney must be so jealous.

Brent Hoad
Kansas City

Comments

kcstar_is_one_sided

"I would call that a dictatorship, or a monarchy. King George does have a familiar ring to it."

"For what's it's worth, I said it's a first step towards dictatorship. And ignoring the law is what dictators do. They make their own laws and follow their own rules. This is what Bush is doing. He is acting like a dictator. I did not say he was a dictator, or that we are under a dictatorship."

Well had you stated the your first post as eloquantly as the second I don't think there would have been an issue.

"I, for one, am having second thoughts about posting anything here again. There seems to be too many put-downs, name-calling, and ridicule to the liberal perspective. This blog is overloaded with conservatives, and unfortunately, they aren't interested in civil discourse. "

You may be surprised, but I don't disagree with you here. I think though before you go away though you should take a look at some of the posts from about 6 months ago when conservatives on the board where a distinct minority.

If you are honest, you'll admit that liberals certainly have their fair share of "put-downs, name-calling, and ridicule to the " conservative " perspective" as well.

Look at your first post in the thread. Was that typical of the thought provoking type of statement you'd like to see adressed to a liberal. Statements with no basis in fact deserve to be questioned. Inane comments given to put down "the other side" deserve to get the appropriate retort as well. If you want to go sing to the choir you can always go over to the moveon or media matters boards. If you want "civil discourse", be civil.

I have found that people on this board will respond back with exactly the same type of comments that they get.

stillwaters

For what's it's worth, I said it's a first step towards dictatorship. And ignoring the law is what dictators do. They make their own laws and follow their own rules. This is what Bush is doing. He is acting like a dictator. I did not say he was a dictator, or that we are under a dictatorship.

And all his calls for bipartisanship are a joke. Compromise to Bush means giving him what he wants. He ignores what the majority of the people want.

And if you think that is okay, you are only enabling the closing of our precious democracy. If Bush has taught me anything, it is that our democracy is fragile, and needs to be protected. Only a bad president can teach us that lesson.

I, for one, am having second thoughts about posting anything here again. There seems to be too many put-downs, name-calling, and ridicule to the liberal perspective. This blog is overloaded with conservatives, and unfortunately, they aren't interested in civil discourse. Engineer does seem to be the exception to the rule.

Kate

The full quote is:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety”

Omission of the words “essential” and “little” make quite a difference. Ben Franklin’s quote has been misused to support the notion that no sacrifice of any liberty for any amount of safety at any time should ever be made.

stone

"those who are willing to give up freedoms for security deserve neither"

Ben Franklin, the Federalist Papers.

Engineer

stilwaters
You are dealing with an extremely narrow set of issues and with old information to boot. IMO, the President feels he has constitutional powers for what has been done. Considering the amount of time that has elapsed, the fact that his opponents control Congress and that some of those opponents have what could well be regarded as a physiological hatred of him, it should be extremely obvious that no actionable violation has occurred. Once again, I seriously doubt that you actually think that President Bush has any aspirations of, let alone plans for, becoming dictator. But no big deal, after all this is just a blog, a place to blow off steam.

kcstar_is_one_sided

Wow, I guess were are under a dictatorship. You really proved it there.

What a joke.

Please take some time and see what rights Franklin D Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln suspended in their terms. I guess I'd say that our country at that time was ruled by totalitarianism.

stillwaters

Engineer, the president's claim of constitutional authority which is above the rule of law and overrides any checks by Congress or the Judiciary branch is the first step towards a dictatorship.

Dictatorship: In contemporary usage, dictatorship refers to an autocratic form of absolute rule by leadership unrestricted by law, constitutions, or other social and political factors within the state.

Mr. Bush thinks he is above the law, and is unrestricted by law, the U.S. Constitution (ironically, he thinks the Constitution gives him this privilege), and the other two branches of our government.

One example from the Boston Globe, March 24, 2006:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/03/24/bush_shuns_patriot_act_requirement/
---------------------------------------------
"Bush wrote: ''The executive branch shall construe the provisions . . . that call for furnishing information to entities outside the executive branch . . . in a manner consistent with the president's constitutional authority to supervise the unitary executive branch and to withhold information . . . "

The statement represented the latest in a string of high-profile instances in which Bush has cited his constitutional authority to bypass a law.

After The New York Times disclosed in December that Bush had authorized the military to conduct electronic surveillance of Americans' international phone calls and e-mails without obtaining warrants, as required by law, Bush said his wartime powers gave him the right to ignore the warrant law.

And when Congress passed a law forbidding the torture of any detainee in US custody, Bush signed the bill but issued a signing statement declaring that he could bypass the law if he believed using harsh interrogation techniques was necessary to protect national security."
---------------------------------------------

Mr. Bush thinks he can ignore and bypass the law.

I would call that a dictatorship, or a monarchy. King George does have a familiar ring to it.

Engineer

stillwaters
Do you actually believe "America is on track to the same fate"? Surely this is just hyperbole and you don't really have any such idea. As kcstar has pointed out re Pakistan, there is very little choice in the matter, and aren't you radically opposed to invading dictatorships?

kcstar_is_one_sided

"This dictator essentially closes down a democracy, and the conservatives think it's all okay."

Sorry stillwaters, no one thinks it's ok. Where'd you get that. Just what are you going to do about it?

Your quote above is interesting. Applying it to liberals I guess it would go something like "America freed millions of people from a dictator to create a democracy and liberals are against it"

BuddyT

boy that thread brought out the kookdom in force, even R2D2 chimes in with a pathetic attempt at a zinger, you know comparing Darth's military background....lol, then there was der slhiclkmeister who once commnaded the Arkansas National Guard, I guess if we really wanted to compare military backgrounds...

Q2D2

There's a huge difference!

Musharraf served in the military.

stillwaters

"Dick Cheney must be so jealous." Where do you think Musharraf learned how to do it?

Seriously, unbelievable. This dictator essentially closes down a democracy, and the conservatives think it's all okay. Of course, America is on track for the same fate, because of the right wingers, so it shouldn't be a surprise they think Musharraf is 'doing a great job'.

Jim

"You people hate the current administration so much you make no sense."

Boy, for someone who preached to me yesterday about lumping people together, you sure do a great job of it yourself!

You have a very nice glass house, One-Sided.

BuddyT

Anne is a little repetitive isn't she?, lol

kcstar_is_one_sided

repeat three times and rinse.

kcstar_is_one_sided

Anne -

So what are his choices?

Let's see, we can't invade Pakistan. Even if we did that for human rights you'd have a fit. We can say, "bad boy, bad boy" and that is about it. Please tell me what are the choices, because I don't see any.

Anne - who is he supposed to put his faith in?

There is no winning with you people.

Hey let's let Mausharraf fall and have the nutjob Islamists take over. Then we'll have real problems and then you can really complain. I'm sure that will be Bush's fault to.

You people hate the current administration so much you make no sense.

Anne

Brent,

I agree with you. I think that's why Bush is going so light on Musharraf. Of course the other reason is that GWB will never admit to making a mistake and putting all our faith in a military dictator with nuclear weapons was a HUGE mistake.

Anne

Brent,

I agree with you. I think that's why Bush is going so light on Musharraf. Of course the other reason is that GWB will never admit to making a mistake and putting all our faith in a military dictator with nuclear weapons was a HUGE mistake.

Anne

Brent,

I agree with you. I think that's why Bush is going so light on Musharraf. Of course the other reason is that GWB will never admit to making a mistake and putting all our faith in a military dictator with nuclear weapons was a HUGE mistake.

 
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