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February 17, 2008

Stem-cell research

I was recently diagnosed with lung cancer and am now undergoing the standard chemotherapy and radiation treatment.

In discussing this dreadful disease with my doctors, the consensus of opinion in the medical community is that the eventual breakthrough will come from the manipulation of the body’s cells. Studies currently being done include embryonic stem-cell research.

Then I hear the worlds of people like George Bush and Mike Huckabee, proudly announcing how they would to all they can to block embryonic stem-cell research. While that may be their personal, religious opinion and I respect that course for them, how dare they impose their narrow viewpoint on millions of people like me and others who suffer from a variety of diseases and disabilities?

What arrogance, what selfishness to deny possible and potential relief to so many, just because that’s how they personally believe.

Michael Rudd
Leawood

Comments

bmmg39

Well, the American Heart Association, while not openly condemning ESCR, makes it clear over and over again that it will not fund it itself, relying instead on "meritorious research involving human adult stem cells":

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4757

And let me tell you something about some of those other "patient advocacy groups." The Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation actually forces its prospective members to take a "loyalty oath," meaning they will either parrot exactly what the JDRF says about ESCs, or they will have to hold their tongues. They certainly don't speak for all juvenile diabetes patients, or all of us who want to see a cure.

Now, are you going to address my other points, SkiDude?

ksskidude

Yet Thompson stills works with them to this day. BMMG obviously you are somewhat educated on this issue, but when you say ESCR is falling behind you make me laugh. It is still advancing everyday and will continue.
Please tell me which patient advocacy groups, whether it be cancer groups, parkinson's groups etc that have come out against ESCR? I am curious?

bmmg39

"It amazes me how people like Dan can write of all the great cures that Adults stem cells have done [sic], yet people are still dying of cancer, hgeart [sic] disease, ALS, Diabeties [sic], Sickle Cell, Parkinson's, etc..."

Straw-man argument. He didn't use the word "cures;" he used the word "advances." As in a man with Parkinson's who saw an 80+% reversal of his symptoms, and people able to walk with braces after several years confined to a wheelchair. You can't refute those, SkiDude, and so you pretend that Dan said something that he didn't say. It is as if they used adult stem cells to help people walk, and you respond with, "Nuh-uh! They didn't help people fly at all!"

"Just because Dan thinks they have worked, ask a family member of anidividual who has died from one of these terrible diseases if Adult stem cells had worked."

Again, if they didn't help every living human being on Planet Earth, then they must not have helped anyone. That's simply brilliant.

"So what would you do with the left over fertility clinic embryo's [sic] that are going to be thrown away?"

I am happy to see that embryo adoption is picking up speed. It started off slowly at first, just as IVF itself did, but more and more it's being touted as a way to help infertile couples without destroying lives.

"Secondly, are all of you serously this naive about science? Most of us would be dead if it weren't for scientific research, research that was also protested in the past. If your [sic] so against it, why do you use it?"

We FAVOR science and scientific research, Dude. I think you understand that to be true, but since you're losing the ESCR debate so soundly, you're resorting to the tactic of painting your opponents as anti-science. Sad.

"Here is a little tidbit, how long do you think Adult stem cell therapies have been around? Over 60 yrs, and still people are dying. Embryonic human stem cells were first isolated in 1998 at the U of Wisconsin by James Thompson."

And before that, they were using ANIMAL embryonic stem cells for almost two decades, and they're still nowhere near even with animal models what they're accomplishing with adult stem cells and actual human patients. You act as though adult stem cells have been given an unfair head start; in actuality, this simply further demonstrates how much easier ASCs are to use than are ESCs. By the way, while James Thomson is a pioneer in ESCR, even he has serious problems with it: "If human embryonic stem cell research does not make you at least a little bit uncomfortable, you have not thought about it enough."

ksskidude

Bmmg,

So what would you do with the left over fertility clinic embryo's that are going to be thrown away? Is your wife or daughter willing to donate their uterus for the birth of the child?
Secondly, are all of you serously this naive about science? Most of us would be dead if it weren't for scientific research, research that was also protested in the past.
If your so against it, why do you use it?

Here is a little tidbit, how long do you think Adult stem cell therapies have been around? Over 60 yrs, and still people are dying. Embryonic human stem cells were first isolated in 1998 at the U of Wisconsin by James Thompson. So give it some time. As with any new drug introduced, there was an extensive research and testing protocol before it had been introduced.
When these cures are realized, and they will be, every single naysayer will get in line if they need that cure. Then they will all be hypocrites!!!

ksskidude

I agree with zenozac in the sense that if you should not want to pay for the research you should'nt have too. But here in MO the anti-cures crowd wants to criminalize SCNT and make a person like MR Rudd a criminal. That IS wrong and we should do all we can to fight it.
It amazes me how people like Dan can write of all the great cures that Adults stem cells have done, yet people are still dying of cancer, hgeart disease, ALS, Diabeties, Sickle Cell, Parkinson's, etc...
Just because Dan thinks they have worked, ask a family member of anidividual who has died from one of these terrible diseases if Adult stem cells had worked.
I would also like to for you to tell me about a non-religious organization that has come out against ESCR. Name one patient organization that is against, and I can name a hundred that are for it.

Stop fighting over it, people are dying. let it go!!!

GCYL

“Any one who disagrees with me, for whatever invalid reason, is WRONG, EVIL, MISLEAD or STUPID!

That about covers all arguements here for the day, doesn't it?” Posted by: jack | Mar 30, 2007 12:29:37 AM

“A far right wing circle jerk.
How boring.” - Posted by: jack | Feb 18, 2008 2:56:44 PM

That about covers it jack.

bmmg39

Anne: "It sounds as though you got your stem cell facts from the same scientists who try to make the case for intelligent design. It ain't science."

Anne, it's a fact that adult stem cells are already doing things for actual human patients that embryonic stem cell researchers can only dream about doing with ESCs. It's also a fact that human embryos are human beings. Please open a science textbook and learn something before you begin spouting off about what is and what "ain't" science.

bmmg39

Tom: "Obviously, you are not a strict follower of the Constitution, because our forefathers clearly stated church and state should be separated."

What on earth does that have to do with preventing human beings from being destroyed for medical research? (In case you haven't entered seventh-grade science class, Tom, human embryos are human beings according to SCIENCE, not religion.)

zenozac

JJ, jack was just speaking about something he has actual experience with. it is kind of refreshing.

JUNGLEJACK

Jack - I'm surprised at you.

At thought that (like me) you preferred it when there was an argument to be made. If you have an opinion - please share it.

jack

A far right wing circle jerk.

How boring.

zenozac

Mr. Beyer,
It sounds as though you got your stem cell facts from the same scientists who try to make the case for intelligent design. It ain't science.
Posted by: Anne | Feb 18, 2008 11:22:46 AM

To paraphrase George Carlin to fit what you are saying. My science is science, your science is crap.
Thanks Anne, now we all know the truth. Any science that contradicts a liberal position is crap!

Anne

Mr. Beyer,

It sounds as though you got your stem cell facts from the same scientists who try to make the case for intelligent design. It ain't science.

kcstar_is_one_sided

Kudos to Dan who hit many points correctly and succinctly. Tom and Michael, do some research, the Adult stem cell item noted by Dan is right on target, don't you guys read any papers, this was big news several months ago.

Tom, I fail to understand your comment about separation of church and state, it really makes no sense. While it is true that many religious object to embrionic stem cell research, many non religious may as well. In addition, people of many different religious beliefs may agree or disagree with it. Is is wrong to support or not support some idea or legislation because of one's moral principles? Frankly, that is exactly what one should be doing.

Gary

Tom, I am not at all religious, don't have a church, don't have a minister, and yet I agree completely with Dan Beyer. What do you make of that?

I also agree with Dan's description of the Star's institutional inability to analyze anything more complicated than sports scores.

Dan Beyer

Tom, I hate to get off subject, but nowhere in the U.S. Constitution is the phrase "separation of church and state" to be found. That phrase came from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote. The first amendment Establishment Clause that IS in the Constitution says that the State will not make an official State church nor will the government restrict religious freedom that many on this website obviously want. As far as there being no social controversy, if that was the case, we wouldn't be discussing this right now if there wasn't a controversy.

Gentle Ben

Mr. Beyer is absolutely correct. The Star is simply a stooge for Stower's Frankenstein Institute for Ethically Challenged Research.

You'd think The Star would accidentally be honest about something, sometime, but no such luck on this issue.

zenozac

"Then I hear the worlds of people like George Bush and Mike Huckabee, proudly announcing how they would to all they can to block embryonic stem-cell research. While that may be their personal, religious opinion and I respect that course for them, how dare they impose their narrow viewpoint on millions of people like me and others who suffer from a variety of diseases and disabilities?"
Michael when exactly did it become illegal to do embryonic stem cell research? Or who has authored a bill to stop this research? No one of course. It is going on today. Right?! Right!
Why is it people like you want to impose your narrow, selfish views on the rest of us because you have a personal agenda? There is NO law against PRIVATE funding of stem cell research. You and the rest of yours who want this research to continue are welcome to donate your money to this cause. But that is not good enough for you is it? You want me and others who believe this is wrong to fund it through our taxes.
So the bottom line from you seems to be it is OK for you to impose your will through taxation, but is wrong for me to have any say in how taxes are spent.
Nice deal if you can get it!

JUNGLEJACK

"Obviously, you are not a strict follower of the Constitution, because our forefathers clearly stated church and state should be separated."

Who said anything about going to church? Are you suggesting that only those of a particular faith could have any type of moral compass?

"Foremost, this is not your viewpoint, but a viewpoint carefully molded by your church."

...I've heard and read everything that Dan mentions in his posts regarding major breakthroughs in adult and cord stem cells in the major media outlets. Not at church.

"If you had a disease, then you would want a cure."

Yes. A cure. Not an unrealistic pipe dream that exhausts funding needlessly.

"There is no social controversy involving embryonic stem cells."

... brought to you by the creators of the slogans:
"There is no controversy over the war in Iraq."
"George Bush knew about 911 beforehand."
and -
"The Patriots are a lock in the Super Bowl."

 
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