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May 20, 2008

Photo IDs for voting

How can someone be unable to obtain an ID, yet be able to get to a polling place and vote?

Susan Genova
Mission

How much would you bet that all of these poor people who cannot afford an $11 picture ID to vote will somehow manage to come up with the $40 it will take to upgrade their television sets from analog to digital?

We, as a nation, have labeled people as victims, and people have happily accepted this role. When people really want something, they manage to get it.

Hey folks, are you ever going to get tired of being victims, set your priorities straight and make something happen for yourselves instead of continually blaming others or the government for what you can’t do?

LeAnne Gamm
Raytown

A word about the proposed picture ID: stupid.

I say that because that puts the inconvenience on the voter, and it ain’t the voter that is the problem when it comes to fraud: It is the crooked politicians.

William J. Smith
Windsor, Mo.

Comments

CRD

"Franklin acknowledged that his actions deprived the residents of Missouri of a fair and impartially conducted election process."

I can't disagree with this, but as Interface implies, this case doesn't at all support an argument that a change in voter identification law would address the violation committed by the Acorn employee.

CRD

You stupid liberal fascits, might as well give the country over to the pinko commie illegals!

Chris40

- By pleading guilty today, Franklin acknowledged that his actions deprived the residents of Missouri of a fair and impartially conducted election process. Franklin admitted that he defrauded the qualified voters who had a right guaranteed by the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution to have the election officials count their votes and certify elections based on the number of valid ballots cast in the election by qualified voters.

***

Yes, of this you should be very proud.

Chris40

You are so classy, Interface.

So, I guess everything is just peachy with democrats committing voter registration fraud in several states. No problem here, just move along.

That's why nobody trusts you. And that's why the Supreme Court just upheld a Voter ID law. Better get used to fair elections.

CRD

Yep, that's what I said, registration fraud. He submitted fake registrations to get money from ACORN.

No one fraudulently tried to vote.

My goodness, you don't really know how to reason, do you, sweetie?

Chris40

CRuD,

1. I know The Schloz very well. Great man.

2. The article you posted says very clearly that the ACORN guy plead guilty to voter registration fraud. Ergo, ACORN is guilty of voter registration fraud.

I'm not sure what I'm missing here. Honest Americans don't want groups like ACORN stealing elections.

CRD

"It was recognized and prosecuted as voter fraud."

You must be a really crappy attorney.

_________

KANSAS CITY, Mo. – Bradley J. Schlozman, United States Attorney for the Western District of Missouri, announced that a Kansas City, Mo., man who was hired by ACORN to work in a voter registration drive pleaded guilty in federal court today to voter registration fraud.

- Dale D. Franklin, 44, of Kansas City, pleaded guilty before U.S. District Judge Dean Whipple this morning to the charge contained in a Nov. 1, 2006, federal indictment..

- Franklin was hired by ACORN, a not-for-profit organization, to work with Project Vote, also a not-for-profit organization that works with ACORN to register voters for federal and local elections. ACORN and Project Vote recruit and assign workers to visit low-income and minority neighborhoods in Jackson County, Mo., and elsewhere to obtain voter registrations. The workers are trained and instructed regarding how to obtain voter registrations and the preparation of voter registration applications.

- Franklin worked as a voter registration recruiter for ACORN in late September and early October 2006, obtaining voter registrations prior to the Nov. 7, 2006, election. Franklin admitted that he knowingly caused to be furnished to the Kansas City Board of Election Commissioners a voter registration application on which Franklin forged the signature of the applicant and on which the address and telephone number listed were false.

- By pleading guilty today, Franklin acknowledged that his actions deprived the residents of Missouri of a fair and impartially conducted election process. Franklin admitted that he defrauded the qualified voters who had a right guaranteed by the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution to have the election officials count their votes and certify elections based on the number of valid ballots cast in the election by qualified voters.

- Under federal statutes, Franklin could be subject to a sentence of up to five years in federal prison without parole, plus a fine up to $250,000. A sentencing hearing will be scheduled after the completion of a presentence investigation by the United States Probation Office.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/news2007/franklin.ple.htm

Chris40

I assume this chart is accurate, CRuD.

http://www.felonvotingprocon.org/pop/StateLaws.htm

Chris40

"That's a misrepresentation. It was pointed out that the case of the employees trying to cheat ACORN out of wages by turning in fake registrations was registration fraud, not voter fraud, and that it was caught by the election board."


I agree. It was recognized and prosecuted as voter fraud. Your side has multiple and recent convictions for voter fraud, and that's why nobody trusts you.

CRD

"Their first line of argument was that there was no voter fraud ever. Then, when we pointed out that ACORN alone had been convicted in multiple states of voter fraud, they changed their tune to it's just not that big of a problem."

That's a misrepresentation. It was pointed out that the case of the employees trying to cheat ACORN out of wages by turning in fake registrations was registration fraud, not voter fraud, and that it was caught by the election board.

"One can imagine that if convicted felons and illegal immigrants were lining up for vote for the GOP"

Of course, there's no evidence that illegal immigrants are "lining up to vote" period.

In the interest of combatting misinformation, I will point out that most convicted felons who have served their sentence are eligible to re-register to vote after completion of their sentences (including completion of parole or probation) in both Kansas and Missouri:

http://www.voteks.org/guide/stepone.html

http://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/faqs.asp#17

I wonder, is there an honest bone in Chris40's body?

jack

"One can imagine that if convicted felons and illegal immigrants were lining up for vote for the GOP instead of the dems then they'd be singing a much different tune."

And if the GOP saw something to gain, they would be singing a different song.

Historically, bigger turnouts have been good for the Dems. Historically, smaller turnouts have been good for the Reps. Why is it a surprise that the Reps have a "good reason" to narrow the list of voters just as the Dems have a "good reason" to expand the list of voters?


Chris40

Their first line of argument was that there was no voter fraud ever. Then, when we pointed out that ACORN alone had been convicted in multiple states of voter fraud, they changed their tune to it's just not that big of a problem.

It has occurred to me that if you are not allowed to ask a voter for her ID, then it's impossible to know the extent of voter fraud. There is an incentive to cheat for both sides, but it's democrats alone who don't want any rules in the voting process.

One can imagine that if convicted felons and illegal immigrants were lining up for vote for the GOP instead of the dems then they'd be singing a much different tune.

GCYL

“That never stopped the flow of regulations and social engineering projects from our liberal representatives.” - EKAN

I agree with your implication that over the years different types of representatives did not wait for CRD’s need of proof of an existing problem before passing various laws.

EKAN

"I'd like to see that there's actually a real problem to be addressed before spending money on it. If the system as it is works fine, then it's just frittering away our hard-earned tax dollars."

That never stopped the flow of regulations and social engineering projects from our liberal representatives.

CRD

"I would be happy to use tax dollars to pay the fee for IDs for people who can't afford it."

I'd like to see that there's actually a real problem to be addressed before spending money on it. If the system as it is works fine, then it's just frittering away our hard-earned tax dollars.

Chris40

Clean voting should be an issue that every honest American can get behind. I would be happy to support voting machines that leave a paper trail. And I would be happy to use tax dollars to pay the fee for IDs for people who can't afford it. This seems fair to me.

Unfortunately, far too many libs don't really want clean voting. With groups like ACORN running wild with false voter registrations, it would cost them too many votes to support the ID legislation.

GCYL

“Also as you said that once the photo ID law went into effect in Ind. that the voter turn out increased. If we were to think that many people were "sneaking into" the booth then requiring a Photo ID would drive them away, therefore the numbers would drop wouldn't they?” - T. Hanson

No, an official for Indiana said that in the CNN article. I think he was trying to say was “Where did these supposed disenfranchised go?” He’s aiming at the issue of “There is nothing to quantify the extent of the burden.” Apparently he thinks that no one had a problem with getting proper ID to vote.

T. Hanson

Don't get me wrong.. I am in favor of the photo ID law. Anything that helps make a legitimate vote is a good thing. Which means a paper trail and accountability must be done.

I am just saying that once this problem is took care of, what is going to be the next whipping boy for the people that get pissed about that the vote did not go their way?

Also as you said that once the photo ID law went into effect in Ind. that the voter turn out increased. If we were to think that many people were "sneaking into" the booth then requiring a Photo ID would drive them away, therefore the numbers would drop wouldn't they?

GCYL

“Of course once this gets passed what will be the next complaint? Only landowners should be allowed to vote?” - T. Hanson

You have a very high opinion of our Supreme Court.

It will be interesting how they decide on the Indiana requirement for a voter photo ID.

CNN:

Civil rights activists and the state Democratic Party complain Indiana's law is the most restrictive in the nation.

"The real question is, does it disenfranchise anyone?" Todd Rokita, Indiana secretary of state told CNN. "After six elections in the state of Indiana, the answer has been no. ... That's why the opponents to this keep losing in court."

State officials claim that voter turnout actually has increased 2 percent since the law took effect. But Rokita concedes the state has never presented a case of "voter impersonation," which the law was designed to safeguard against.

Justice Samuel Alito spoke for many of his colleagues, wondering how they should rule in the absence of any clear evidence supporting either side.

"The problem I have is, where do you draw the line?" he said. "There is nothing to quantify the extent of the problem or the extent of the burden

Rogue

I fail to see how it is an imposition to confirm your ID when excercising your right to vote. If you do not have and ID and the rest of us taxpayers pony up and buy one for you, you had best not complain about producing it when required to do so.

 
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