Guantanamo series

Your three-day front-page in-depth article about the terrorists being held in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, sounded like it was written by our enemies. The wording, referring to “the Americans” as though the writer and the reader were not Americans, was appalling.

The Geneva Convention protections have been given to these detainees all along, when they are not applicable to terrorists. Now, they are to be given the same legal rights as a U.S. citizen? How absurd that you seem to applaud this move, which erodes further the powers we have against those who plot to kill us.

Amy Brown
Leawood

Comments

[Kate]

“How does the attack by a biased left wing source on an entirely different article apply to the analysis of the left wing report on Gitmo?”

Engineer, tonight the left wing source’s home page features an unflattering picture of someone who is supposed to be Giuliani, asleep on the subway. The sad part is that it’s not until the 10th comment that anyone realizes the linked story is satire. I believe I recognized CRD among the first 9 commenters.

I'm not linking to it because many of the comments would get me much trouble with Trudy. :)

[Kate]

From the PHR report: “It is possible that allegations of torture and ill-treatment made by the former detainees were affected by recall bias and/or intentional exaggeration or misrepresentation for personal and/or political gain. PHR could not independently investigate and corroborate all statements made by the former detainees in this report, nor assess the consistency of the detainees’ accounts. Due to logistical and security reasons, PHR was unable to obtain either 1) corroboration from any of the former detainees family members concerning post-detention health and functioning, or 2) prior medical records to determine prior history. Where possible, PHR sought to corroborate the former detainees’ allegations with external sources. The detention medical records of one individual and the independent medical evaluation of another former detainee were used to corroborate their accounts. Media sources and released US government investigations on allegations of detainee abuse were used to corroborate accounts by two other former detainees.”

Which means that the doctors who wrote the study admit they cannot prove anything

Some of these people were held by other regimes, and without prior medical records – a verifiable baseline – it’s impossible to say for sure where the injuries came from. People need to be held accountable for their actions, but a certain level of evidence should be met before asking us to believe that the US used routinely used torture as a course of action.

[Engineer]

CRD
How does the attack by a biased left wing source on an entirely different article apply to the analysis of the left wing report on Gitmo?

[Engineer]

CRD
How does the attack by a biased left wing source on an entirely different article apply to the analysis of the left wing report on Gitmo?

[Engineer]

Jim
As I think you know, I was referring to Reid and Pelosi. And I stated "is my considered opinion". That opinion is based on Reid's many cries of "defeat" and the attitude displayed by both of them.

[CRD]

For a view of pajamasmedia.com, the blogsite founded by right-wing bloggers Roger Simon and Charles Johnson (of Little Green Footballs), go here:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/06/pajamas-media-a-new-method-of-fact-checking/

[Kate]

For another view of the report by the Soros-financed Physicians for Human Rights, see http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/physicians-report-on-torture-a-questionable-case/

[Jim]

Eng,

Who are "R and P," and what evidence do you have that they actively root for their country's defeat?

[Engineer]

Jim
What a far from impartial group may report is not conclusive evidence. The fact that scars exist does not prove that those scars are the results of injuries received at Gitmo. The ex-detainees surely know how to tailor their stories. The International Red Cross, no friend either of America or the Bush Administration, has had free access to Gitmo and has reported nothing of consequence. Treason is a clearly defined crime. Whishing and hoping that we "lose" on Iraq is not treason. However it is my considered opinion that both R and P do wish for this and have done everything they can to favor its happening. They well may think that this would be good for America, they surely think it would be bood for the Democratic Party.

[Jim]

By the way, Eng, if Conservatives want to play loose with the "treason" game, I'd think that Charlie Black's comments that a terrorist attack "would certainly be to McCain's advantage" in the election would certainly count for something.

But if Black's numerous business dealings with bloody Saddam-like dictators didn't wake people up to the kind of people McCain surrounds himself with, I suppose nothing will.

[Jim]

Eng,

There have been numerous reports of the abuse and torture of detainees in Guantanamo and other places. The latest was released last week after a group of physicians examined some detainees and found evidence of abuse and torture.

It was so bad, in fact, that Army Major Gen. Taguba, who the Bush Administration tapped to investigate Abu Ghraib a few years ago, has said that this is evidence of war crimes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/18/AR2008061800336.html

I think that a group of physicians would know something more about the medical and physical condition of detainees than some stuffed suits in Washington or talking heads on Fox "News", don't you?

As far as calling it "treason" to point these things out, you need only to look at the letter and at Katman and Gary's comments to see that. Saying one of your fellow citizens is "the enemy" or is rooting for the failure of the US is tantamount to treason. Mostly, it's the coward's way of saying treason without actually saying it.

[CRD]

If we don't take the high road in how we treat our prisoners, we've already lost the right to be called Americans.

[Engineer]

Jim
"Pointing out physical evidence that detainees are getting severe beatings, electric shock and even sodomized is now treason". Just what evidence of this nature exists? And who said pointing out evidence is "treason"? On the other hand exposing intelligence operations and information sources is very unwise in the present situation. It can result in revenge murders, destruction of information channels and lead to the failure to uncover terrorist plots in time.

[solomon]

with apologies to howard

"Down goes katman....Down goes katman"

[Jim]

Katman,

When I've written about your hypocrisy before, this is what I'm referring to.

You have bemoaned a lack of civility several times here, blaming it all on "libs." Then you say Alex wants his country to lose and terrorists to go free and kill Americans. You have no evidence that Alex wants any such thing, except that he disagrees with you. That automatically makes him someone who hates his country. Alex made an argument and you couldn't make a counter-argument, so you just called him a traitor and waved him away (you don't even know that he's the "Alex M." you say he is).

If you even tried in the slightest to live up to the standards you impose on others, perhaps we could have a meaningful dialog. But it's obvious that whatever high-minded back-and-forth you say you're interested in becomes inconvenient when you're challenged on the facts.

[katman]

Guess who's back? Well, no child left behind really works in his case. Yada Yada Yada

[Jim]

"I have a hunch Alex is the same Alex M. the left wing letter writer who wants the U.S. to lose in Iraq..." yadda yadda yadda.

Anything to back up that "hunch" of yours? Or are you just exhibiting more of that "civility" you wish liberals would learn to use?

[katman]

I have a hunch Alex is the same Alex M. the left wing letter writer who wants the U.S. to lose in Iraq, the economy to go into the dumpster, all Gitmo freed, et al. Suspect he's bosom buddies with Ward Churchill & Noam Chomsky.

Alex, come out of the closet & 'expose' yourself. Don't worry you have some company on this blog.

[Jim]

Coming from the guy who believes that every single Iraqi killed in the war was a terrorist, that means a lot.

"NOt invaded? How much do you need to see? The Pentagon, the World Trade Center (twice) Kovarth Towers, the USS Cole?"

Setting aside the fact that your examples do not constitute and "invasion" of any kind, you seem to be saying that everyone in Guantanamo was involved in one or all of these atrocities. If that were the case, it'd be rather easy to get a conviction, wouldn't it?

"If I were a field commander the last three words of any op order would be "take no prisoners". "

Since you've routinely shown your contempt for the Geneva Conventions and the rules of warfare, I don't doubt that. I suppose the fact that we're better than they are and need to be better in every single way makes no difference to you. Your proud hatred of America and everything we're about is pretty disgusting.

[Rogue]

NOt invaded? How much do you need to see? The Pentagon, the World Trade Center (twice) Kovarth Towers, the USS Cole?

Lets get those "eveel US soldiers" and protect all those innocents at Gitmo.

You people make me want to puke. I am sorry good men fight and die every day to preserve your right to make absolute asses of yourselves.

BTW, where are all those stories about the "trials" we gave German and Japanese POWS? Where are the stories about the "trials" the VC, and NVA got.

If I were a field commander the last three words of any op order would be "take no prisoners".