Cap-and-trade legislation

While I support moving toward energy independence and consider myself an environmentalist, the cap-and-trade legislation recently passed by the House smacks of big government and overly intrusive policies. This bill will fuel an inflationary fire that is already smoldering due to excess government spending and create financial hardships for the majority of Americans.

I resent the current view that the government needs to have a hand in controlling our behavior and continually legislating additional controls on our businesses and families. This is really about increasing dollars to the federal coffers, not about “global warming” or the environment.

I realize that the power grid needs to be upgraded and changed and that power use continues to increase despite an aging infrastructure, but I am looking to my elected leaders to lead and develop innovative solutions, not tax us into oblivion.

Donna Gordon
Lee’s Summit

I would like to thank Rep. Dennis Moore for his “yes” vote on the landmark American Clean Energy and Security Act. This bill will put millions of Americans to work building the clean energy infrastructure America needs to be competitive in the 21st century.

Innovators in the renewable energy, energy efficiency and manufacturing sectors are already operating in every state in the U.S. and are poised to grow. This bill will unleash a clean energy breakthrough and help free America from its dependence on foreign oil. And it will slash America’s global warming pollution, helping to ensure our children and grandchildren cleaner, healthier air and water.

This was not an easy vote for Rep. Moore, but it was the right one. I hope our senators will follow suit.

Dena Sneed
Prairie Village

Congress passes a scandalous cap-and-trade bill, and the thing was never officially written. No hard copy, no five-day waiting period so we citizens might read it, and a 300-page addition by the Democrats at the last hour to an already 1,000-page bill that no one has read.

And you liberals, including the media, wonder why so many of us now are scared to death of the regime-like tactics occurring in Washington. Bring on 2010 elections, I say — if they are held.

Tim Bower 
Overland Park

Comments

[guyb16]

As I read all of the postings, I can't believe how naive some of my fellow Kansas Citians are.
For a long time now Congress has forgotten that we supposedly have a representative form of government. They don't listen to us; they do exactly as they want. They pass bad laws and exempt themselves from them. They tax and retax us while all the time its about staying in power and how much can they get for themselves. Just to make a point, if Social Security is so great, why do they have their own retirement plan? If they were suddenly required to participate in SS, I bet it would get fixed, fast! And as far as fixing it goes, the only reason its "broken" is because they won't keep their hands off of it. There should be over a trillion dollars in there but all thats there is a worthless IOU. Its worthless because its not them that stands behind it, its us!
As I look at the legislation that comes out of DC, probably at least 75% of it is not only misnamed to get votes, the real reason for it is totally different from what is being presented to us. To prove the point, look at the most recent junk.
The bail out. Had to have it right now or the economy would crash. So they passed almost 800 billion without even reading it and so far, less then 60 billion has been spent and some of that on ridiculous stuff that has nothing to do with creating jobs. And if we needed to prevent the economy from crashing now, why does most of it kick in after 2011 up to 2019?
Cap and trade. Lets assume for a moment that the whole global warming thing is true. Then whats the thing with the carbon credits? Everyone needs to reduce their carbon footprint, not just those of us that can't afford to buy credits. And how is the average family going to pay the extra $3000 a year it will cost us?
Healthcare. I would be the first to admit that changes need to be made but if we'd start by making sure that greed was no longer a consideration, that would help. In the state of New York alone, 70 to 120 million dollars a year could be saved my stopping the fraud. One doctor billed medicaid for 942 patients seen, in one day! In the state of Florida, five pizza parlors bill medicaid for HIV services. How smart do you have to be to know this is fraud?
Obama says you can keep your own insurance but what he doesn't tell you about is a factor in business. One businessman pays 15% for each employee for their health coverage with his business. The penalty for not providing coverage to employees in the plan is 8%. He can save 7% per employee by dropping his coverage. What do think he will do?
Folks, we need to wake up. And we need to wake up the snakes in DC that we sent and let them know just who their boss is. By the way Dena from Prairie Village, I let Dennis Moore know that I will see him at the polls for ignoring the mountain of calls from his constituents opposing the bill. Hes not there to vote his conscience, hes there to vote ours!
All of the citizens need to realize that Washington is not on our side; they are on their side. I mean, wake up! If your family budget is in shambles and there isn't enough money to get through the month, will borrowing help you?
Everyone likes to blame Bush for this mess. But it was the democrats that pushed fannie and freddie to buy those crapy loans so that everyone could have a house and Barney Frank is pushing to do it again. And thats where this all started and while I agree that there was a lot of corruption and greed that got us into this mess, free enterprise and capitalism is what will get us out of it. Not BIG government. If you don't believe it, save this post and read it every year or so.

guyb16 signing off for now.

[JoCo]

To learn the pmcw postline, copy now to your printer and study, so that you may--fast-forward, fast-forward-- save time rereading in future pAstings.

[JoCo]

I thought TARP was begun under GWB, and in any event, was pitched as needed lubrication to unseize credit flow and rescue other large industries.

Call me naive, but I cannot believe a 300-page addendum could be "slipped in". Somebody has to write it, proofread, edit, rewrite, assemble, all of the bill production processes. With all of this over time, is there no access, legit or not, to the details within? I fthere is such a complex, secretive system, I'd bet it's been used for longer than 6 months and is more likely institutional. This "no read" congress trip is nothing new, and who gets credit for the "good" bill?

Agreed on Tax. W/O Repr being tyranny. We represented ourselves in November.

[Stopthepresses]

Taxation Without Representation is Tyranny- and so is Legislation Without Deliberation: an 850 page TARP Bill adding a trillion in new debt onto our children, signed into law by President Obama without him or Congress having read it- an impossibility as it had been introduced less than one day earlier- and now this monstrous Cap and Trade Bill, similarly Byzantine and voluminous, with a 300 page addendum, no less, slipped in at the last instant.

[JoCo]

Metnay,

Explain: "Mark your calendar in red because this is the path we are heading for."

Do you mean that come 2010, we will be heading for a Republican resurgence due to voter backlash from this bill?

Or do you mean this bill represents a trend toward communism? If this is your gist, why do you color an otherwise great appeal and background info on this matter with an ill-informed, trite red-baiting assertion? And if this is what you believe, cite the facets in content or supportive politics that ring of communism.

[metnav]

Even ten years ago, if I had suggested that the majority party’s proposed bill would be withheld from the minority party two hours from the vote — and then one copy was grudgingly provided, to be shared by all 435 Representatives , you would have looked at me like I was a crazy person…….

Well that’s exactly what happened a week ago Friday when Congress voted on and passed the infamous HR 2454 Cap and Trade/Carbon Emissions Bill. Final vote: 219 Yea, 212 Nay. A little after 3 am on that very same day a 300 page amendment was added to the original 900+ pages. This is the longest suicide note in history and will further hasten our downward economic spiral. The Senate looks to debate it this Fall where it will likely get nowhere. Friday’s vote may have been a gift to the POTUS for the upcoming UN meeting knowing there’s little chance of it getting thru the Senate. Before Friday’s vote I made my feelings known to our Democratic Congressman. I see he voted No but I’ve no idea what his real motivation was. Some that voted Yes received calls 20:1 urging a No vote and they still voted Yes.

This is about more than just higher electricity rates. It’s a massive redistribution of wealth, further limits our freedoms all under the guise of reducing an essential trace greenhouse gas, and does next to nil for energy independence. This Manmade Global Warming/Climate Change House Of Cards is tumbling down. Every week more and more new contrary evidence is seeing the light of day. The Mainstream Media won’t report it, but this vital information is getting out to those that want honest debate on this important issue.

Looking past the Senate this Fall we have the December Copenhagen UN meeting on a new Global Warming Treaty. Remember the Kyoto Treaty? Well you ain’t seen nothing yet. I shudder to think what the U.S. delegation would love to commit us to for years or decades forward. Lastly there’s the EPA waiting in the wings to regulate all things CO2. Just this past week a leaked string of internal EPA e-mails detailed suppression of evidence that undermines the CO2 argument.

Remember Friday’s vote, because if this horror show is implemented on the American public it will blow up in our face as it has in every country this has been tried. At what cost in dollars and individual freedoms? Mark your calendar in RED, because that is the path we are heading toward. Contact your Senators and ask them if they’re prepared to defend a Yes vote for this misguided Bill. Let them know a NO Vote will ensure your support next election cycle.

[Roger Lambert]

Write this date down! I actually agree, in part, with whispering to KC.

The main beneficiaries of this bill will be wall street traders who will learn how to make money off the cap and trade system. Consumers will pay more, probably a lot more, for energy. Productive businesses who use energy will pay more, probably a lot more, for energy.

Will it reduce emissions? Maybe to probably. But not nearly as much as building new nuclear plants would.

[JoCo]

And thanks to the posters, as I read further, for thoughts and sources for scientific and economic analytic analyses.

[JoCo]

Why were "thinking people" not following this issue sooner, PMCW? Seriously, why did they not listen to you or have this impending danger on their own radar?

I am at present far too technically illiterate on the CO2 emissions science/politics debate to form anything other than speculative judgment.

I don't doubt you can back up your serious claims, but is this backing from independent scientific sources or backlash alarmists who fear the political ramifications, eg. overempowered congress? You say, on the one hand that congress would become unencumbered by due process in "un-taxing", but you also claim that the courts would be clogged interpreting duplicitous wording, i.e. due process. And if the ACESA, 2009, is as threatening as you fear, then maybe there could be no better use of the judiciary as a check. Would that, however, spawn undesirable judicial activism?

As far as the effect on our economy or that of the world, what is a "nearly unbeatable fact"? All economic intuition is inherently beatable, being based on certain assumptions. Nearly, quite, absolutely, hardly, are all discretionary adjectives that arise from those same precepts that allow economic forecasts to take shape. There are likely numerous almost subjective economic predictions that may urge to act now before the problems, and costs for solutions, rise.

Still, I am greatly influenced by your genuine concern and like others you name, intend to learn more about the problems and proposed solutions, economic and political. As always the challenge is to glean info that is free of latent agenda. I fear I'm late, but hopefully not too late.

[KC Educator]

The reason that we study economics is because of scarcity. All resources are finite, and when they are used up their will be no more. Fossil fuel is no different. Some may argue how long it will take to exhaust our supply, but anyone with any sense realizes that the end is coming. By 1971 we hit peak oil production capabilities in this country. Domestic production has flattened an decrease since that time, though the demand for energy has expanded exponentially through the same period. We have depended on people who want to see our society destroyed to supply our energy needs for nearly forty years. It now appears that world peak oil production was reached in 2002. World enrgy demands are even greater today putting more pressure on supply. We can not keep going the way that we are going.

The utility companies do not have an incentive at this point in time to change what they are doing. The cap and trade legislation is designed to provide that incentive. If we wait too much longer to start transitioning into new sources of energy production, we run the risk of it being even more expensive. People want to talk about the debt that we will leave our children, think about our children burdened by the same debt without the means to live the same lifestyle that we now enjoy.

[notogovserfdom]

CAP AND TRADE IS ALL ABOUT ALL PAIN FOR NO GAIN (EXCEPT FOR GOLDMAN SACHS WHO WILL MAKE A KILLING ON THIS BILL}
Goldman Sachs has been behind almost every "bubble" in the US economy including the housing bubble according to a well researched article in Rolling Stone by Matt Taibbi. Now Goldman Sachs is positioned to make another killing on an even bigger scam worse that anything Madoff could ever imagine, the Waxman-Markey Climate bill. President Obama appointed one of Goldman Sach's lobbyists, Mark Patterson, the Treasury Dept Chief of Staff making one wonder whether President Obama's support for the Waxman-Markey Climate has more to do with the big payoff Goldman Sachs will get from carbon offset trading than anything else. Especially since credible analysts are reporting that the bill will have little or no impact on co2 emissions and do great harm to the economy. refs, ?The Costs Of Cap and Trade? by Robert Zubrim http://www.rollcall.com/news/36393-1.html?page=2 and ?The Illusion of the New Green Economy.? by Roy Spencer, Ph.D http://www.prisonplanet.com/cap-and-trade-and-the-illusion-of-the-new-green-economy.html
So why is President Obama and Congress so gung ho about getting the bill passed when it will do little if anything to reduce co2, result in higher energy costs for everyone and the loss of millions of jobs? Do President Obama and Congress have a suicide wish for the economy? The average Jill and Joe who will be hurt most by this Bill want to know. By the way "green jobs" are just another scam. If the "Green Jobs" President Obama is proposing were so great, they would pay for themselves and would not need to be involuntarily paid for by the blood, sweat and tears of the already over burdened tax payer.

[NoMoreMrNiceGuy]

Apparently Dena does not have a clue as to how many millions of people ALREADY work implementing "clean" energy. I would ask Dena what scopes and skilled trades does she think will magically appear?
Last time I checked, Wind Turbines do not require boiler makers, pipefitters, and along list of other skilled trades.
Does Dena know what AQCS is? I doubt it. Neither does Obama.

[Rmoen]

I'm a Democrat who doesn't support cap and trade, and think the House overplayed its hand when it passed this legislation. I read editorials, comments and letters-to-the-editor from all over the nation. They are against cap and trade by at least 4-to-1. The Senate will be wise to heed the overwhelming lack of public support and stop this disastrous legislation from passing into law.

-- Robert Moen, www.energyplanUSA.com

[Kee]

The bill is a disaster. For every "green job" that Dena waxes so poetic about, ten manufacturing jobs will be lost.

Pray this garbage is killed in the Senate.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/EnergyandEnvironment/wm2503.cfm

[pmcw]

The second greatest economic power held by government is to tax; the greatest is to selectively un-tax. With this seemingly innocuous power, Congress elicits favors from all those who are willing to pay the tab. To radically expand this power is the central goal of Cap and Trade legislation.

For months my friends and most of the pundits I follow thought there was so little chance of Cap and Trade legislation passing, they ignored the issue and, at best, humored me when I pointed to it as the greatest economic threat facing the U.S. economy today. However, with it now apparent there is real threat of this legislation passing the House; thinking people are beginning to take notice. Unfortunately, it may be too late.

Because Congress is not encumbered by truth in advertising laws, the Cap and Trade bill, which even some Democrats call "Cap and Tax," has been named the "American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009" or, as we'll call it here, "ACESA." This title accompanies two House Resolutions, H.R. 2454 and H.R. 2998. When writing your Senators, I suggest referencing the full title (American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009) and both of the bill numbers noted above. This is a point in time when being abundantly clear is of the utmost importance.

The important thing to understand about ACESA is that it is not at all designed to do what its name suggests; as a matter of fact, when viewed on a global basis, it may have just the opposite effect; there are strong arguments to be made supporting the contention that ACESA would cause higher global CO2 emissions and significantly detract from our national security even beyond the nearly unbeatable fact it would be ruinous for our economy.

There are many easy, painless and even economically positive ways we can encourage reduced CO2 emissions and stimulate the development of new technologies that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil, which is what is implied by the "security" part of the title. However, this bill will not accomplish these goals. What this bill will accomplish is a mechanism for massive corruption, the strengthening of the power of congressional incumbency, the establishment of a full employment act for lawyers and the debasement of the aggregate U.S. economy. Yes, those are bold words, but I can back them up.

If this bill passes, Congress will have the power to decide who gets to release CO2, how much they will get to release, how much they will have to pay if they want to release more than the congressional dictated allocation and who they must pay. Because nearly everything we do from raising cattle to growing crops to powering our electric grid to manufacturing everything we eat, wear and use emits CO2, the implication is Congress will have absolute control over not just our economy as a whole, but also in naming the winners and losers.

Make no mistake; what our Congress is trying to do is give itself the ultimate and nearly infinite power to selectively un-tax without the annoying encumbrances or inconveniences of due process. Congress knows that if it is successful in this ruse, it will have industry cowering at its feet to beg for just one more bowl of CO2 credits and, with that, all the campaign contributions and perks you would expect to change hands when favors are denominated in tens or, in some cases, hundreds of billions of dollars.

When you write your Senators, which is something you can easily do today through the House web site, www.senate.gov, you should ask for two things. First, that they sign an affidavit stating they have read and understand the contents of both H.R. 2454 and H.R. 2998 and, second, to not only vote against both bills, but also mount a campaign to influence others to vote against them as well.

The bottom line here is that there is nothing that threatens our economy, our freedom, our class mobility and our security more than what is being deceitfully presented as the "American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009." The power it will grant Congress is absolute and its wording is so duplicitous that it will clog our courts for years, which will do nothing more than redirect what money is left in our economy to lawyers. We need legislation designed to give us more scientists, engineers and doctors, not more lawyers and avenues to corrupt our political process more than it already is.

[whispering_to_kc]

"Cap and Trade" is only about making Wall Street richer. The investment bankers are the only ones who will benefit from emissions trading. The rest of us will only lose.

"Bring on the 2010 elections" makes a nice bumper sticker but you won't see Goldman Sachs or their Wall Street brethren on the ballot any more then than last time.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1622:chairmen-waxman-and-markey-introduce-the-american-clean-energy-and-security-act&catid=122:media-advisories&Itemid=80