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September 29, 2010

Depolarize U.S.

The tea partiers aren’t the only ones who want their country back. I want mine back, too. Our country is the land of the Constitutional Convention, the Federalist Papers and the Lincoln /Douglas debates, and a land in which our political leaders engaged in reasoned debate to address and resolve the issues before the nation.

That isn’t happening today. Take health care reform for example. Catch phrases such as “death panels” and “socialized medicine” are not factual and engender fear rather than debate. Blame the Republicans for their catch phrases or the Democrats for their fast-track strategy, but sadly our country never had a public, factually-based debate over health care reform.

If our political leaders can’t manage to engage in a meaningful debate over health care, how can we expect them to govern effectively? Open debate does not resolve every issue, but it at least gives some legitimacy to the outcome, which the health care legislation lacks.

If we lose our democracy it will not be because we have lost our entrepreneurial spirit or drifted into socialism. It will be because we have become so polarized and so reliant on political gimmicks to shape public opinion.

James Baker
Belton

Comments

Casady

I think it's just a goofy thing that Jon Stewart came up as a spoof on the Tea Party, Katie. As you saw by reading the web page, he is not taking a very serious tone. I imagine Jon Stewart is as surprised as anyone to see people like Beaker taking it seriously.

KC Educator

Where did I tell anyone to shut up????

I think that anyone with any sense at all can tell that you took the quote out of context in order to personalize the discussion and turn it from the issues. That's the problem, people like you don't want to discuss issues and ideas, you want to insult and personalize. Hopefully someday we can have a mature conversation.

Here is the whole conversation from the quote. It sounds a little different than Zeno intended it to sound.

No where in the constitution is the phrase "separation of church and state" either Roger.

Posted by: Kee | Apr 1, 2010 7:39:14 AM

No where in the constitution is the phrase "separation of church and state" either Roger. Kee

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion Constitution
That seems pretty clear

Posted by: KC Educator | Apr 1, 2010 10:27:30 AM

T. Jefferson use that phrase "separation of church and state" in a letter to some Baptists KC Teacher. It does not appear in the constitution. "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of a religion" may be interpreted many ways.

Those that can do.
Those that can't teach.

Posted by: Kee | Apr 1, 2010 11:45:40 AM

Those that can do.
Those that can teach. Kee
Thank you for the recognition.
I never said that the phrase was in the Constitution. I said that the Establishment Claus was pretty clear. It is so clear that it has been consistently interpreted by many Supreme Courts.

The less well known ending to the phrase above is "Those that can't do or teach run their mouth off bitterly insulting anyone stupid enough to listen to them." Sounds pretty much like you

Posted by: KC Educator | Apr 1, 2010 7:06:42 PM

And by the way, it was James Madison that coined the phrase.

KatieK

It’s kind of curious that nowhere on the Rally to Restore Sanity page does it list where in DC or what time. Maybe now that Congress is out, they figure everyone left in DC is trying to restore sanity. http://www.rallytorestoresanity.com/

The Facebook page doesn’t even list it anywhere except in the Tweets. But after reading the Facebook comments, I pray that Stewart does indeed heal these people. You go, Jon! You restore their sanity!!

Casady

So enlighten us there Beaker. What conspiracy groups are behind the Rally to Restore Sanity? Lst time I looked, it was Jon Stewart and Steve Colbert. I don't recall them being communists. Just a couple of comedians.

I'm thinking you might just be a little paranoid.

beaker

Yeah KC Educator -

you go to Washington. While you are there take a look at who is paying to support the Rally to Restore Sanity. Say hi to all those nice Communist and far left groups that like you think they are politically in the middle.

Do us all a favor and take whispering with you and leave him in the potomac.

Zeno

Yeah I am not cool. never have been really. But that glass house and rock thing is really annoying.

ggbridge

Z, you should try the crib notes next. All the cool kids are doing it.

Zeno

KC ED you mean like the comment from you below? No of course you don't mean like that! It is others who should shut up because Educators like you do not like their comments. Thanks, but fortunatly, you do not get to make that decision.

"The less well known ending to the phrase above is "Those that can't do or teach run their mouth off bitterly insulting anyone stupid enough to listen to them." Sounds pretty much like you."
Commented Apr 2, 2010 on Texas curriculum at Unfettered Letters

Keith Williams3

I don't want the country back to the way it was I also don't want it to continue the way it is; just get me leaders that will do something for everyone and not just special interest or Rich folks. Lets go in a new direction that means Not the Repub or Dem way :>) Oh and dismantle the Tea Party.

KC Educator

And this is the problem with the debate today. Many of us spend all of our time calling everyone that does not have the exact same opinion names rather than focusing on the issues. It takes serious people to tackle serious problems. If we can not talk about the problems then we really should not be in the conversation.

Zeno

Second paragraph should have said "many of the libs here" Not "most"

Zeno

Casady, you are right as to perspective. I think you are a little off om my perspective here. I did not say KC ED was an extreme liberal, but i do think there are some here. LWTKC, JIM, Wildman... But I put that on them because I don't see it mattering to them what the discussion is, if it is even remotely a repub idea it is bad. But I imagine they pale to the SF libs, who I would probably classify with something other than liberal. There are hatemongerers on both sides, who should be labled something else, because while they may line up on one side or the other, really still do not represent what most of the conservatives or liberals beleive are appropriate actions.

My point is that most of the liberals here want to call themselves independents or moderate. BUT, you can not have the exact opposite views of one side and still be in the middle.

If a liberal believes abortion should be leagal, guns should be banned, global warming is emminant, taxes should be higher.... etc. And I and many others believe the opposite, then they cannot be moderates, unless I am in effect a moderate also. Maybe then we need to recall the labels and make us moderate left and moderate right.

I know this is long, but the basic point with KC Ed is I do not think libs like him and Ryan and others who are always, (repeat always) on the left of every issue can call themselves moderate or independents. Anymore than I can call myself a moderate.

Casady

I think it's a matter of perspective Zeno. Someone like you who is an avid conservative will view anyone who leans even slightly to the left as an extreme liberal. Conversely, I'll visit my truly extreme liberal friends in SF and they look at me as a tight assed conservative just because I sometimes lean slightly right on fiscal and monetary policy. It's all perspective. None of the regular posters on this blog are extremely liberal, IMO. Pacifica radio is extreme liberalism, CNN is not.

And I hardly think Stewart or Colbert take themselves very seriously. I am sure they would be pleased to see that you do not take them seriously either. I always remember that classic John Stewart bit. He was being interviewed by Tucker Carlson who was feebly trying to grill him on how he presents issues. Stewart's classic response is "You are on CNN here, we are talking Comedy Central!"

Zeno

Jon Stewart, part of the great american middle! LOLOLOLOL!

Zeno

"Blame the repubs for their "catch phrases" and the dems for their fast track strategy."

Let's blame both sides for their "catch phrases", like Representative Grayson saying the repub approach to health care "is for grandma to hurry up and die".

Again another liberal trying to sound moderate. And how can we tell, because GG loves the letter!

Zeno

Radicals on both sides have dominated the debates; it’s time for the majority of us who are in the middle to say that we have had enough.

Posted by: KC Educator | Sep 30, 2010 8:36:09 AM

I always find it interesting when liberals like KC ed think they are part of the middle majority. I went back and read the last 10 or so posts you have written here. Each one has you firmly aligned with the positions of the liberal left. You are obviously not a radical leftists like some here. But you are kidding yourself if you really think you a centrist.

Why are libs so afraid to admit they are libs. I am not in the middle, I am very conservative in my beliefs. KC Ed, face up to who you are and where you fit and be proud!

ggbridge

KC Educator, I am so jealous. My parents are going, though it's so radical they'll probably have to spend some time at the Rally to Keep Fear Alive! ;-)

As letters go, I like this letter. It's very reasonable.

Greghand

Not political gimmicks! Simply Political corruption.!

KC Educator

In late October Jon Stewart plans on holding an event on the Washington Mall called the Rally to Restore Sanity. I plan on being there. It is not that there is no debate in this country. It is that there is no room for compromise. This country was founded on the principle that compromise was necessary and essential. The only other time that there was no room for compromise more Americans lost there lives in a war than any other war in our countries history. Things need to be done, and neither party seems to have the ability to do them, and neither party is listening to the vast majority of the people of this country. Radicals on both sides have dominated the debates; it’s time for the majority of us who are in the middle to say that we have had enough.

GCYL

“People need to start fighting back. If people like you are bloodied in the process, so be it. You asked for it.” - Posted by: whispering_to_kc | Jun 12, 2010 10:18:47 PM

“I'll shed no tears over any of their dead.” - Posted by: whispering_to_kc | Jan 8, 2010 3:43:01 PM

Some people would read the part about “thick gutta-percha cane with a gold head” and start drifting down memory lane called “the good old days”.

Others will read James’ letter of personalized embellishments and wonder what The Star was trying to accomplish.

 
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