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January 26, 2011

Gun owners’ rights

I have heard people crying the same song that Democrats will use the Tucson, Ariz., tragedy to try to put limits on legal gun owners. Not once in any of those rantings did they mention that Jared Loughner was a legal gun owner.

Ric Rainey
Kansas City

Comments

LL

thanks for bringing that win the WTF thing...it's a real SPUTNIK moment!!!

leopold

Obama’s new catch phrase is “Win The Future.” Yes, that’s right, Democrats are rallying around W.T.F.!
Posted by: Smarter Than You | January 27, 2011 at 11:25 PM
---------

That's so funny it deserved a bump.


John Hardin

"...Jared Loughner was a legal gun owner."

No, he was not. He lied on his Form 4473 when purchasing his pistol. That is a federal felony.

http://www.google.com/search?q=loughner+lied+%22form+4473%22

matt

Problems exist when the wrong people are allowed possession of a firearm or weapon of any kind, no question about it. The same holds true for alcohol and automobiles. Think about it, we allow 16 year olds to drive, how nuts is that? If you have a violent, criminal or mental health history or diagnosis, been asked to leave a university because of your behavior, those are red flag loopholes that must be closed. However, in the hands of stable responsible adults which represent the overwhelming vast majority of all gun owners, guns deter crime, this not even debatable. Why do you need a semi-automatic rifle or AK clone to hunt? You don't. they exist for the sole purpose of defense of family, home, or country. The 2nd amendment exists to acknowledge the inalienable right to say No to unwarranted intrusion with the standard weapon of the day. It had absolutely nothing to do with hunting. The standard weapon must be at least competitive with what any militia or army carries as their small arm issue, whether hand gun or long gun. There are two clauses in the 2nd amendment; the collective clause, a well regulated militia, and the individual clause, the right of the people to keep and bear arms. They are distinct and supported by logic, history, 19th century court interpretation and the anecdotal writings of the founding fathers. The "people" in every instance and amendment has been verified to mean the individual. Why would that interpretation hold true for all of the amendments in the bill of rights except for the 2nd? Every country or civilization since the dawn of time has maintained a government sanctioned army of some sort. The bill of rights. especially the 1st and 2nd amendments were considered radical and progressive for their day precisely because they addressed INDIVIDUAL rights. Hillbillies and fat balding men make up no more of the demographic at Gun shows or owners than any other aspect of society. In fact they are largely made up of professionals such as law enforcement, Physicians, Nurses and other health care professionals such as Pharmacists, Lawyers, teachers and every other kind of profession one can think of.

LL

Hope some of these people who advocate more gun control read Clyde Waltermate's letter in the January 28th letters...it may put things a little more in perspective...

whispering_to_kc

Speaking of "underfunded entitlements", here's Bush's $3 trillion Iraq War for petroleum ...

http://www.perceptualedge.com/blog/?p=353

I'll go look for what the Wall Street collapse has cost us but I suspect $3 trillion might be on the light side.

Smarter Than You

Our two shills for Obama, who have demonstrated little competence this evening on the topic of guns and gun laws, do have their litany of success on underfunded entitlements to help them sleep.

1/26/11
“WASHINGTON (AP) - Sick and getting sicker, Social Security will run at a deficit this year and keep on running in the red until its trust funds are drained by about 2037, congressional budget experts said Wednesday in bleaker-than-previous estimates.
The massive retirement program has been suffering from the effects of the struggling economy for several years. It first went into deficit last year but had been projected to post surpluses for a few more years before permanently slipping into the red in 2016
This year alone, Social Security will pay out $45 billion more in retirement, disability and survivors' benefits than it collects in payroll taxes, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said. That figure nearly triples - to $130 billion - when the new one-year cut in payroll taxes is included.”

1/26/11
“WASHINGTON (AP)– Two of the central promises of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law are unlikely to be fulfilled, Medicare's independent economic expert told Congress on Wednesday.
The landmark legislation probably won't hold costs down, and it won't let everybody keep their current health insurance if they like it, Chief Actuary Richard Foster told the House Budget Committee. His office is responsible for independent long-range cost estimates.”

*****
Obama’s new catch phrase is “Win The Future.” Yes, that’s right, Democrats are rallying around W.T.F.! W.T.F.(?) is the perfect description of how America feels about leadership in Washington the last two years (reference 11/02/10).

Smarter Than You

Forget the show of hands, we’ll just follow the smell of soiled diapers and count those as our gun control nut jobs. Ryan, be sure to have a competent adult clean you up so you aren’t (more) rash. Whispering, those depends aren’t working so well for you.

Why the diaper example? Because these two are full of (expletive deleted).

gonenative

What is implicit in owning hand guns, is that you are willing to use them on another human being. That, I just don't get. There is a lot of rhetoric on the gun rights side, but the fact that you are expecting to use your gun on another person is...alarming. This country could use a little soul searching.

whispering_to_kc

The Idaho woods are full of M-I-L-I-T-I-A-s, in training for whatever they're convinced is about to come.

Practicing 3-second magazine swaps.

Hiding their guns in the woods for when Obama sends his jack-booted government thugs after them to usher in the New World Order by command of the UN and herd all his dissenters into the FEMA death camps.

Black helicopters EVERYWHERE!!!!

Ryan Roedel

I wish there was an IQ test to vote.

Ryan Roedel

I'm sure we'd all love to live in a society free of violence, but it doesn't exist.

My point about the 2nd amendment was only to say that "a well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". A militia....a militia...a militia...let me spell it for you...M - I - L - I - T - I - A. I wasn't trying to say guns should be banned. Only that regulations and laws governing "Arms" are well understood and documented. The 2nd amendment doesn't even mention guns, does it. Grow up!

Now...if you excuse me, I need to go fly my AH-64...hey...it's Arms.

Ryan Roedel

See...this letter only posed an issue as well. Yes, I am a liberal. That means I defend individual rights and also the rights of the group. I own guns and know how to use them. I, like this letter, only posed an issue within the context of this debate, as well. Sure shootin...pardon the pun...the cons and gun nuts come out. They make up an argument about banning guns or some bs like that and then argue against it.

Oh yes...I don't own a glock, nor will I ever. I have no need of it. I'd also love to see some evidence...proof...that guns keep society safe from guns. That seems to be the most insane statement and catch 22 I have ever heard. Guns are meant to kill...plain and simple. If I was ever in a situation where I had to use a gun on another human, it would be to protect my family, and you better believe that I would intend to kill. That is the reality of guns. All other talk is pure tripe.

Neil

For those who insist that "A lot has changed since its (2nd amendment) proposal and its ratification." There was also no US Government Printing Office or Public Broadcasting System. Using your logic says that that it is time to eliminate the First Amendment.

Neil

Ric Rainey's claim that "Jared Loughner was a legal gun owner" shows is absolute IGNORANCE of the subject and the law. Federal law prohibits users of illicit drugs from owning guns. This is a question on BATFE Form 4473 regarding this. Loughner committed perjury when he answered "NO" to the question... He is now trying to use his drug use to avoid conviction.

Loughner attempted to join the US military due to illicit drug use, so this is DOCUMENTED. Why wasn't it reported to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)?

I suggest you get your facts straight before you go pointing fingers!

I think that the moronic comments that I am seeing prove that people are too ignorant to be allowed to make public statements. Therefore I propose that anyone posting public comments undergo a comprehensive test of their knowledge of the subject.

whispering_to_kc

"... someone explain to Whispering that it was a member of the House and NOT Kathy Lee that got shot ..."

Meaning only that you're "confused", but I'm sure it's not the first time.

Whether taking advantage of the convenience of large magazines or dropping an empty standard capacity clip and exchanging it for a fresh one in under 3 seconds, the real mystery is what military action you're taking part in, other than the local paint-ball wars, that requires such rapid fire capability?

By the way, Uncle Fester must not have taken the time to practice swapping out magazines like STU has, as he apparently tried once or twice but he was defeated by little ol' ladies taking the full clips away from him and forcing him to run off instead. A situation STU might also have difficulty with, being defeated by little ol' ladies while he fumbles with his weapon.

And, it's worth noting that the only Tucson citizen "carrying" on hand for the GIFFORDS shooting almost shot one of the other bystanders as they took Uncle Fester's gun away ... instead of shooting Uncle Fester.

The first gun show I ever went to was at 435 and Front. I've noticed since the pro-gun crowd can basically be divided between the attendees I observed at that show years ago.

(1) Hillbillies.

(2) Short/fat/bald middle-aged males obviously making up for their "shortcomings".

You're born into #1 but there's medical help available for #2.

Ryan Roedel

Oh...that's right. The neocon author of self-flatulating dogma has shown his face on this thread. Now, all the children can go and play. The master has come to lecture all us little chillins. See, you can't pose a comment or actually have a discussion with nut jobs like youse guys. The sooner we have revolution...the better. I will take my 2nd amendment right and shove it up your.....wow.....what was that.

A simple comment about the era when the 2nd amendment was proposed and ratified drew the comments contending that I was "interpreting" the 2nd amendment as if I was void of any understanding of court interpretation. What the cons and other gun toting crazies still clinging to their old world won't tell you or admit is this...there ARE regulations and should be. I guess "the right" to have "arms" is only to guns. My "arms" consists of tanks, bombs, or how about mustard gas? See...we have regulations and laws and other rules in place to limit someones ability to be too crazy when it comes to "arms". Get a life you con turds. No one's gun rights are being threatened. Hey...tell you what wackos...abortions don't kill the unborn, insane people kill the unborn.

Bottom line from all this is...shut the F up. Guns and any other form of weapons are designed for one purpose.....to take life.

whispering_to_kc

"You guys" are the anti-gun freedom haters.

Smarter Than You

Show of hands; who expected the anti-gun nut jobs to be out in full force over the Giffords shooting? (someone explain to Whispering that it was a member of the House and NOT Kathy Lee that got shot).

It is obvious is that our anti gun crowd have little to no practical experience with a weapon like a Glock. With very little practice you can drop the empty clip and replace it with a full one in less than three seconds. Yet they really believe it’s the clip size that’s the issue.

Then we get the liberal parsing of the second amendment when the courts have ruled on the validity of gun ownership.

May I suggest "you guys" go back to supporting underfunded entitlements and spending money we don’t have in record amounts.

You’re Welcome!

Ryan Roedel

Solomon, who are these "you guys" you refer to?

 
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